Jim Meade Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 I have a question born of laziness, I should be ashamed to say. Does an SLSA that was built with position lights so that it could be flown between nautical twilight and daylight need to have those lights be functional if it is not flown in that period? I understand a standard certificated airplane with position lights does not have to have them working if not flown in conditions that require them. Is LSA the same or is it different? I know, I should be ashamed to not know this answer off the top of my head. I'm really looking for the reference, so thanks to anyone who can cite the reference I should be looking at. For the sake of discussion we could also talk about ELSA. In my specific example, someone reported a position light may be out. I'll check later today to see if it is. But if it is and I only fly when the sun is up, does it matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chanik Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 FAR91.205, same as for GA The stuff only has to be operable if you fly at night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercity Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 I would assume as with GA if its installed it should be functional, and if its not functional and not required it should be placarded as inop as well as a logbook write up stating so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chanik Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 The FAR's do not specifically require that, but it is certainly prudent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercity Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 The FAR's do not specifically require that, but it is certainly prudent. 91.213 says a little about it, ......... (d) Except for operations conducted in accordance with paragraph (a) or © of this section, a person may takeoff an aircraft in operations conducted under this part with inoperative instruments and equipment without an approved Minimum Equipment List provided— (1) The flight operation is conducted in a— (i) Rotorcraft, non-turbine-powered airplane, glider, lighter-than-air aircraft, powered parachute, or weight-shift-control aircraft, for which a master minimum equipment list has not been developed; or (ii) Small rotorcraft, nonturbine-powered small airplane, glider, or lighter-than-air aircraft for which a Master Minimum Equipment List has been developed; and (2) The inoperative instruments and equipment are not— (i) Part of the VFR-day type certification instruments and equipment prescribed in the applicable airworthiness regulations under which the aircraft was type certificated; (ii) Indicated as required on the aircraft's equipment list, or on the Kinds of Operations Equipment List for the kind of flight operation being conducted; (iii) Required by § 91.205 or any other rule of this part for the specific kind of flight operation being conducted; or (iv) Required to be operational by an airworthiness directive; and (3) The inoperative instruments and equipment are— (i) Removed from the aircraft, the cockpit control placarded, and the maintenance recorded in accordance with § 43.9 of this chapter; or (ii) Deactivated and placarded “Inoperative.” If deactivation of the inoperative instrument or equipment involves maintenance, it must be accomplished and recorded in accordance with part 43 of this chapter; and (4) A determination is made by a pilot, who is certificated and appropriately rated under part 61 of this chapter, or by a person, who is certificated and appropriately rated to perform maintenance on the aircraft, that the inoperative instrument or equipment does not constitute a hazard to the aircraft. An aircraft with inoperative instruments or equipment as provided in paragraph (d) of this section is considered to be in a properly altered condition acceptable to the Administrator. (e) Notwithstanding any other provision of this section, an aircraft with inoperable instruments or equipment may be operated under a special flight permit issued in accordance with §§ 21.197 and 21.199 of this chapter. [Doc. No. 18334, 54 FR 34304, Aug. 18, 1989, as amended by Amdt. 91–280, 68 FR 54560, Sept. 17, 2003; Amdt. 91–282, 69 FR 44880, July 27, 2004] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Meade Posted February 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 Thanks for the references. I was not sure that LSA was the same as standard certificated. I've always been told by A&Ps that the lights don't have to work if they are not needed for the flight conditions so that answers my question. In any event, I checked today and mine all work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chanik Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 Most of the regs for LSA actually are the same for GA, particularly parts 21, 43 and 91 stuff. FAA 8130.2F (current) just points the user to these various regs. So it does look like placarding, at least, should be considered mandatory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Meade Posted February 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 Most of the regs for LSA actually are the same for GA, particularly parts 21, 43 and 91 stuff. FAA 8130.2F (current) just points the user to these various regs. So it does look like placarding, at least, should be considered mandatory You may be right. I've never seen it done. I'm not sure there is an absolute requirement to check lights on a pre-flight if you are not intending to fly the plane at other than during sunlight. If one didn't check, there would be no basis to placard. Just mulling this over. Not sweating it too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 If you label it INOP you must also disable it. Pulling the wire from the circuit breaker would be a good way to do that. It would also require a logbook entry. PS these lights will quit working when they get hot sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chanik Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 Popping the breaker or a piece of tape over the switch would suffice given that the FAA does not say how to disable. Anyway, this isn't the sort of thing the FAA goes after. I doubt they have ever violated someone for day VFR flight with inop equipment that is not part of the MEL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 Popping the breaker or a piece of tape over the switch would suffice given that the FAA does not say how to disable. Anyway, this isn't the sort of thing the FAA goes after. I doubt they have ever violated someone for day VFR flight with inop equipment that is not part of the MEL. Just relaying what I've been taught at CFI and IA renewals. When they look at it they don't know why it is INOP. The peice of tape or popped breaker can be changed by the next person to fly the plane. That is why they say to remove the breaker or disconnect the wire. They have also relayed cases of people being violated because of this. Also in one case it caused an in flight emergency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chanik Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 Well, that's when they will definitely violate, when it causes a problem. Here's some guidance specific to lights: http://www.faa.gov/library/manuals/aviation/pilot_handbook/media/PHAK%20-%20Chapter%2008.pdf page 8-9 If it were something like the ADF overheats then I can see where a popped breaker and tape would be insufficient. For lights in day VFR, that seems to be sufficient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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