Patrnflyr Posted April 13, 2013 Report Share Posted April 13, 2013 Anybody see this post? http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?do=main.textpost&id=53994f1d-9f81-41f7-9e48-056293696327 New A/C for the LS and doesn't weigh a ton either... I always flew mine when it was cooler in the mornings because of turbulence but some people may want it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT4ME Posted April 15, 2013 Report Share Posted April 15, 2013 Missed it until you posted... interesting... especially in Phoenix! tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WmInce Posted April 15, 2013 Report Share Posted April 15, 2013 I attended Sun 'n Fun on Saturday and got a chance to see the unit up close, while it was in operation. Not bulky, was mounted between and aft of seats. The unit is non intrusive. It is low profiled and has two, good sized, shoulder high, eyeball diffusers which can be aimed for directing conditioned air forward. Puts out a satisfactory volume of cool air from both outlets. Temperature of air was not as cold as that of my 4-door Tundra, but I think would be quite adequate for a Florida summer day. IMHO, unit is not an eyesore, but compliments the CTLS nicely. They did a good job with the design. I did not check the unit weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chanik Posted April 15, 2013 Report Share Posted April 15, 2013 In PHX, you can just use a portable swamp chiller: http://survivalstore.com/r4s13leb2.html?utm_source=googlepepla&utm_medium=adwords&id=18283950120&utm_content=pla Pretty sure it is cheaper and lighter. Won't work so well in humid Florida. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gmoore7 Posted April 16, 2013 Report Share Posted April 16, 2013 I saw this last week at Fun/Sun and was impressed. The cost is around $15k and the weight is is about 50 pounds. My understanding was that it can not be operated while taxiing or in climb. When I get up around 5k feet I really don't need it. In my case it sure would be nice on the decent or low altitude flying in hot weather. Nice to see all these additions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WmInce Posted April 16, 2013 Report Share Posted April 16, 2013 In PHX, you can just use a portable swamp chiller: http://survivalstore...utm_content=pla Pretty sure it is cheaper and lighter. Won't work so well in humid Florida. How well does it perform in the traffic pattern? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted April 16, 2013 Report Share Posted April 16, 2013 Hmm, the article says 20lb installed, Gmoore7 says 50lb...pretty big difference there, which is it? Also, is it CTLS only or can it be installed in a CTSW? I don't think I could justify $15K for one, but it's a "cool" idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted April 16, 2013 Report Share Posted April 16, 2013 20 to 50 lbs added weight for an AC unit? Whats wrong with opening a window? On the ramp or cruising low and/or slow in Georgia summer (and I guess TX, AZ, etc as well) this is...unsatisfying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Znurtdog Posted April 16, 2013 Report Share Posted April 16, 2013 The unit needs a separate alternator and battery (it's 24 volts) with a 912uls and this weighs around 40lb total, according to the guy installing the unit at SNF. It does not run a compressor directly from the engine and not only can be used anytime in flight, it can be plugged in on the ground (as it was at SNF) to pre-cool the interior. The unit at SNF blew some serious air! The tech said they are considering a 12 volt version that would be about 6k btu, vs 9k btu for the 24 volt ver. It also wouldn't likely need a separate alternator on the 912is engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted April 16, 2013 Report Share Posted April 16, 2013 The 912's would need an alternate power source like the external alternator. The internal power coils don't have enough power while anything else was running. Some of the newer panels with all their electronics tax the internal power output now days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesse.briscoe Posted April 22, 2013 Report Share Posted April 22, 2013 They received their LOA and it is $14,750 to install. They have been working with US Aviation Group in Denton TX. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted April 22, 2013 Report Share Posted April 22, 2013 It looks as though the installation takes up all of the baggage area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul m Posted April 22, 2013 Report Share Posted April 22, 2013 On one side it seems. $15k plus weight penalty plus can't use on taxi...looks like a nice install but can't see doing it. Of anyone, seems to me the demand would come from Florida/Southern flight schools where weight penalty hurts less and cost could be somewhat defrayed by higher usage in summer?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sseveren Posted April 23, 2013 Report Share Posted April 23, 2013 Hi All, Just catching up. I will try to answer questions as I am the one behind integrating the FlyCool system to the CTLS. The AC system will be in the 40+ lb weight - under 50 lbs total installed weight, including alternator, battery, harnesses, hoses, refrigerant. FlyCool (the system manufacturer) was advertising a 20 lb weight for just the AC part of the unit - which is not the whole story. The system is designed SPECIFICALLY to be used on the ground and during taxi, (and of course, in flight) hence the reason for the larger 70 amp alternator. The AC unit only wants about 30 amps, but since the alternator output is rpm dependent, we went with a high output alternator so that on the ground (at low rpm settings) the alternator puts out enough to allow the system to work well. This runs on a totally independent electrical system – it does not depend on the existing alternator, regulator or battery of the Rotax. Being an electric system, one could think of leaving the AC on for take-off, but best practices would suggest off for take-off, to have everything available to the engine during that phase of flight. The bulk of the system is mounted in the right side baggage area. The air is drawn from the cabin through an evaporator mounted behind the passenger seat in the access area to the baggage compartment. The air is then output through a duct forward back into the cabin area to a plenum/vent mounted between the two seats. Two adjustable vents allow the air to be directed pretty much in any direction. What about offering a Pre-Cool option, so you could plug the unit into an outlet in your hangar to cool the CT while you are performing a preflight. Does this sound worthwhile? My thought is, particularly in the heat of summer, if you start off with a cool cockpit, it is a much nicer environment as you taxi out to the active. We have seen a 20 degree drop in under 10 minutes on a 100 degree day. I “field installed” the unit in a CTLS at SNF (courtesy of John Hurst for the CTLS), with limited tools and borrowed vacuum pump and gauges. I know the R134A level was off a bit as well as the compressor oil level. And I can verify that there were air leaks like crazy in the ducting (as this was set in the airplane without doing a permanent install), but I was pretty happy with the result, considering. Air Conditioning is not right for every airplane or pilot, but in the summer in the southern states, it can make taxiing and flying much more enjoyable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul m Posted April 23, 2013 Report Share Posted April 23, 2013 Thanks Scott for clarifying. Can you confirm that even for CTLSi it will have its own electrical system? Good luck with it. I think the useful load weight reduction for the already challenged CTLSi is going to be tough to overcome, but if I were looking for a local rental/flight school in Florida or Texas I would personally pay the extra hourly charge if the plane had A/C. For owners in those states I think many would argue they would just fly early or late in day to combat the heat at this type of price point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sseveren Posted April 23, 2013 Report Share Posted April 23, 2013 Paul, Yes, everything is a trade off. The CTLSi is the next project and FD is very interested in that application. I am working on solving the issues there - the AC system is 24V, so unless we use the Rotax alt AND and external, which woulkd get complicated very quickly, it will be external alsternator. The other option is a 12V system, but there is then a different amperage requirement. I am not convinced that the flight school environment is best suited for AC. We have a pretty busy flight school (about 75 aircraft) and useful load and expense are pretty strong drivers. The recreational pilot is who will really get benefit from the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul m Posted April 23, 2013 Report Share Posted April 23, 2013 Again good luck with it. Great to see aftermarket vendors getting involved and FD (hopefuly) being responsive and supporting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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