Stick and taxi

[Tom Baker]

5 extra knots has been stipulated to not be a big deal. It's not what I'd call "flying it on".

 

Still, that's about a 10% increase if we're in the vicinity of 50k.

 

From Aerodynamics For Naval Aviators:

 

Thus, a 10 percent excess landing speed would cause a 21 percent increase in landing distance. The excess speed places a greater working load on the brakes because of the additional kinetic energy to be dissipated. Also, the additional speed causes increased drag and lift in the normal ground attitude and the increased lift will reduce the normal force on the braking surfaces. The acceleration during this range of speed immediately after touchdown may suffer and it will be more likely that a tire can be blown out from braking at this point. As a result, 10 percent excess landing speed will cause at least a 21 percent greater landing distance.

 

Just sayin'.

 

Oh, and for CT4ME...Gun Control!

 

The thing is you can have a variation in wind of almost 25% the stall speed before it is called a gust, so the 5 knot increase could be 1/2 the gust factor before you actually have a gust.

[Tom Baker]

The way I remenber control inputs for wind is to put the top of the control surface against the wind, and if it is quartering then the top of aileron on that side goes against the wind.

[Doug G.]

I suspect anyone who doesn't understand this either doesn't taxi in much crosswind, or has been scared by a wing lift.

[CT4ME]

FWIW, I landed and taxied in a solid 28G38 in Twin Falls ID, in my 2006 CTsw. 'Lived to tell about it. CT handled it well. I did have people coming up the next day, wondering who the "crazy guy" was, and to see the "cute" aircraft. 9-20-2009 5pm

tim

[FastEddieB]

FWIW, I landed and taxied in a solid 28G38 in Twin Falls ID, in my 2006 CTsw. 'Lived to tell about it. CT handled it well.

 

 

Was it like wrasslin' a pig?

[CT4ME]

'definitely got jostled around! But no control issues, or wing lifting. Keeping doors open, and papers from flying out... now that was a pain!

tim

[Roger Lee]

Hi Tim,

 

Exactly how did you land? Full stall, lots of flaps, zero flaps and throttle, ect....?

 

The Enquirer publication used to say, "Enquiring minds want to know"

[Runtoeat]

After landing I go to -6 as quickly as possible, regardless of the wind conditions.

[Ed Cesnalis]

After landing I go to -6 as quickly as possible, regardless of the wind conditions.

 

+1

[FastEddieB]

Getting rid of the flaps right after touchdown is very popular.

 

The FAA recommends against it, here in the Airplane Flying Handbook and I believe in the Practical Test Standards as well.

 

 

After the airplane is on the ground, back-elevator pressure may be gradually relaxed to place normal weight on the nosewheel to aid in better steering. If available runway permits, the speed of the airplane should be allowed to dissipate in a normal manner. Once the airplane has slowed sufficiently and has turned on to the taxiway and stopped, the pilot should retract the flaps and clean up the airplane. Many accidents have occurred as a result of the pilot unintentionally operating the landing gear control and retracting the gear instead of the flap control when the airplane was still rolling. The habit of positively identifying both of these controls, before actuating them, should be formed from the very beginning of flight training and continued in all future flying activities.

 

Whatever works for you, just be aware of their stance.

 

BTW, not doing ANYTHING until clear of the active is VERY difficult to do - there's a very strong psychological compulsion to "fiddle" with stuff right after touching down. Really not necessary - there's nothing that can't wait until you're clear of the active, stopped, and using your checklist.

[CT4ME]

Luckily, the winds were within 10 degrees of the runway. Landed 0 flaps. Put at -6 quickly.

[sandpiper]

Ed - we have no gear to inadvertently retract so the only real downside is if we are instructing and set up bad habit patterns for students that will be moving upward. The law of primacy if I recall correctly.

[Ed Cesnalis]

Your right John, This is my last plane so its ok for me.

[sandpiper]

Yep, I won't be flying anymore retracts. Not gonna do any more primary students, either.

[FastEddieB]

I'm fine with it as well, though for consistency I do it the way I teach it.

 

I've never once had an issue leaving the flaps as is throughout the rollout. The extra weight on the wheels for braking gained by raising the flaps seems to be offset by losing the drag the flaps provide. In my experience, it ends up pretty much being a "push" as far as landing distance goes.

 

Flight instructors often come from a slightly different perspective, wanting to teach the recommended methods, and then not wanting to be hypocritical by doing it another way when alone.

 

Other than the retractable problem, the other reason is planes do sometimes lose control on the rollout while the pilot has his head in the cockpit "cleaning up" - landing light off, transponder off, flaps up, boost pump off, cowl flaps open, whatever. Not a single item there can't wait until clear and stopped.

 

Like I said, even if you have no intention of doing so as habit, at least once try completing the landing rollout and not touching anything until clear of the runway and stopped. You might be surprised how hard it is.

[Jim Meade]

The recommendation to not touch the flaps until off the runway is an old one for the reasons expressed. The FAA believes in the Law of Primacy, which is you learn best what you learned first and they don't want you to end up pulling up the gear when you later transition into retracs.

 

We always raised flaps after landing the Citation. The co-pilot did it on command. There was a squat switch on the gear, though one should never place ultimate faith in that, as we are all taught, there were two people involved, although we all know that can go wrong.

 

I raise the flaps to full retraction upon landing the CT, as well. I'm willing to stand the heat if someone dislikes it. I think the benefit outweighs the risk when we are talking about a fixed gear airplane. And, for many of us, it is the last or similar to the last airplane.

 

If one feels very strongly about it, it is worth speaking frankly with the DPE about it before the checkride so that there are no misconceptions or misunderstandings.

[Duane Jefts]

Flaps up after landing reduces lift on the wings, which can be a plus in many situations. Two of the most prominent would be a turn off the runway with high winds on the upwind wing with the downwind wing blocked as well as Prop wash from another aircraft or jet. Ever see a little plane flipped over? Not good.

 

Just food for thought, not a mandate, or (everyone needs to raise the flaps after landing).