Safety Officer Posted October 24, 2013 Report Share Posted October 24, 2013 Hi Floats, Tell us of your new development from FD. Here is what many don't know. Floats is in Canada and the plane was purchased from the Canadian distributor. FDUSA has no standing in Canada and didn't sell the plane. This should have been handle in Canada, but FD Canada went under about three years ago. FD USA that wasn't responsible stepped up at first and offered 50% off parts and after discussing this with FD Germany is now supplying the parts for free and only shipping is on the owner. FD USA has stepped up to the plate world wide to help owners when they had no responsibility or legal obligation to do so. FD USA is a separate US company and is not FD Germany so technically FD Germany should have been contacted and dealt with. I would think FD USA ought to get a pat on the back for going to bat when they had no legal responsibility to do so. They are helping many around the world so being overtly critical of them because you may not be in the information loop is a little premature. Floats, If I were you I would take the water there where you take off and land and have it tested for any thing alkaline. I would make sure to drill much larger over sized drain holes in the underfin and stab and more than one. I would tape and seal every orifice that is open. You probably get much more water into sensitive areas than any one of us and the problem starts if it can't drain quickly. Your problem is an exception, but the reason may be there are only 2 maybe 3 CT's on floats and that's why we have never seen anything like this before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
floats Posted October 24, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2013 Thank you for the advance notice. Is shall call FD tomorrow morning. René Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted October 24, 2013 Report Share Posted October 24, 2013 That's great news Safety Officer! I absolutely give FDUSA kudos for that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WmInce Posted October 24, 2013 Report Share Posted October 24, 2013 That's great news Safety Officer! I absolutely give FDUSA kudos for that! Concur. For perspective buyers, that says a lot about FDUSA support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
floats Posted October 24, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2013 Hi Floats, Tell us of your new development from FD. Here is what many don't know. Floats is in Canada and the plane was purchased from the Canadian distributor. FDUSA has no standing in Canada and didn't sell the plane. This should have been handle in Canada, but FD Canada went under about three years ago. FD USA that wasn't responsible stepped up at first and offered 50% off parts and after discussing this with FD Germany is now supplying the parts for free and only shipping is on the owner. FD USA has stepped up to the plate world wide to help owners when they had no responsibility or legal obligation to do so. FD USA is a separate US company and is not FD Germany so technically FD Germany should have been contacted and dealt with. I would think FD USA ought to get a pat on the back for going to bat when they had no legal responsibility to do so. They are helping many around the world so being overtly critical of them because you may not be in the information loop is a little premature. Floats, If I were you I would take the water there where you take off and land and have it tested for any thing alkaline. I would make sure to drill much larger over sized drain holes in the underfin and stab and more than one. I would tape and seal every orifice that is open. You probably get much more water into sensitive areas than any one of us and the problem starts if it can't drain quickly. Your problem is an exception, but the reason may be there are only 2 maybe 3 CT's on floats and that's why we have never seen anything like this before. I am very pleased to confirm your statement. I spoke to FD and this offer is real. They had no responsibility to do this as my plane was bought in Canada. FDUSA have been great in acting as point of contact between myself and FD Germany where the ultimate decision was made, likely with some pressure from FDUSA. This is indeed great support. When I remove the parts, I shall report on what I find or send them to FD to figure out what happened to the fiber. Thanks also to all those on the forum who provided advice. This forum has a large number of talented people in many fields. René Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted October 25, 2013 Report Share Posted October 25, 2013 Hi Rene, Sounds great and I'm glad it worked out so well. It certainly could have gone a different direction. I would think some would want to retract their harsh FD words because FD USA was a stand out here and went above and beyond and comments were made without the inside double secret info (I know some don't believe in the secret society ). Maybe give the Safety Officer a high 5 paw. Hope everything stays good for many more float hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted October 25, 2013 Report Share Posted October 25, 2013 Floats, if Flightstar gmbh doesnt want the parts, send them to me. I will sit down and try to figure out what happened, and also test various cleaners on the undamaged parts for research. I can post here what i find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Znurtdog Posted November 2, 2013 Report Share Posted November 2, 2013 Way to go FDUSA!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mocfly Posted November 23, 2013 Report Share Posted November 23, 2013 Just noticed this today. Wondering if this is a Risk to Flight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted November 23, 2013 Report Share Posted November 23, 2013 Chris, how does the material feel? Hard as the surrounding area, or soft and fragile? That seems like a weird spot, right under the rudder...or is that the underside of the stab? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted November 23, 2013 Report Share Posted November 23, 2013 Just noticed this today. Wondering if this is a Risk to Flight? Round 2? You should never fly a composite plane that visibly shows breakdown. There's no telling what it looks like on the inside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted November 23, 2013 Report Share Posted November 23, 2013 Hi Chris, I'm not sure what I'm looking at or where? From what I can tell it looks cosmetic. If it has a slight sink, but is still firm you're okay. I might want to shrink your pictures down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mocfly Posted November 23, 2013 Report Share Posted November 23, 2013 Is directly under the rudder fin. Top of stabilator. It' is firm. Roger, Are you implying (Eddie, would you check the spelling on that) that if it becomes soft I should ground the plane? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted November 23, 2013 Report Share Posted November 23, 2013 Hi Chris, Okay now I see what and where the pictures are referencing. How long has it been this way? This has been a common place to have a little sinking of the skin. It hasn't been an issue other than cosmetic. They have all stayed firm. FD considers all these skin recessions to be either an acidic or alkali water or chemical agent that collapses the foam. I couldn't comment on grounding because I would need to see the area and its size. If it became soft and mushy then I would certainly re-evaluate its airworthy. I wouldn't worry at this time and is easy enough to keep an eye on. For now most all have never had an issue and if you wanted this could be re-finished to look good again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted November 23, 2013 Report Share Posted November 23, 2013 I wanted to comment and state that I don't consider sinking skin "breakdown" in relation to my previous comment. Breakdown is obvious, where it's no longer firm, cracking or decaying, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mocfly Posted November 23, 2013 Report Share Posted November 23, 2013 I will keep an eye on it, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted November 23, 2013 Report Share Posted November 23, 2013 It's just the top gelcoat and paint layer that has recessed and many times does not affect the carbon fiber, but they are always areas to keep an eye on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
floats Posted April 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2014 We cut the damaged stabilizer to see why it became so soft. We can see the delamination of the yellow fiber that came off. The white chemical became brittle and separated from the fiber. On the left side of the picture (I do not know why the pic shows twice) a good part still solid on the right the delaminated part. Does anyone have experience in balancing a stabilizer. The procedure in the book seems quite a long and meticulous one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted April 9, 2014 Report Share Posted April 9, 2014 The dark material is carbon fiber, the tan material is kevlar/aramid I believe. Did the two layers just peel away from each other? Are both hard, or soft? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
floats Posted April 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2014 The yellow material peeled of the black one . The white layer between the two lost all its foamy tickness to become thinner than cigarette paper. The thick coat can be seen on this part not delaminated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted April 10, 2014 Report Share Posted April 10, 2014 Fiberglass is clear when impregnated, and white when it isn't. There is no fiberglass in these pictures. Yellow is aramid/kevlar, black is carbon fiber. Yes, the core did indeed break down. You might be able to bend and break the damaged portion by hand. Try it (with gloves) to see how much force it takes to break. Then try to do it with the undamaged portion. It should be impossible without some serious tooling. You can do the initial balancing while the stabilator is not installed IAW 4.3.4.4.3, but you need to remove the balancing and mount assembly from the aircraft so you can suspend it from the bracket's axle. That will let you easily get to the balance weight during the initial balancing. Balancing a stabilator is complex, and there's no getting around that. Ailerons, rudders, and elevators are a little easier, because you can use just a simple fulcrum and weight ruler (it looks a lot like the old scales doctors would use, with the little sliding weights). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runtoeat Posted April 11, 2014 Report Share Posted April 11, 2014 I fabricated a fixture to balance my stabilator when I did the reinforcement. Here's some pics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted April 11, 2014 Report Share Posted April 11, 2014 Keep in mind the trim mechanism and rods are supposed to be attached when balancing, since they are also fitted to the beam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runtoeat Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 I was expecting this question. The rods and trim mechanism was weighed and the effective weight was added to account for their effect. This is not seen in the photo. The balancing was very straightforward once the stabilator was set into my fixture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacques Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 Hi Dick, is your fixture available 'for rent'.. Looks like I will do the balance on floats's elevator....in June thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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