STALL Landing

[Bobby CAU]

dear CT Fliers fellow,

 

any one knew about STALL Landing?.

[FlyingMonkey]

And so it begins...again.

[Bobby CAU]

And so it begins...again.

 

sorry Andy,

does the topic discussed before?.

[Craig]

The topic seems to come up in almost every thread flying related... just wait for it, and it goes there like it's on auto-pilot. Here's just some recent threads...

 

http://ctflier.com/index.php?/topic/1888-a-cautionary-tale-of-two-landing-accidents/

http://ctflier.com/index.php?/topic/1887-do-you-get-the-stick-full-aft-when-you-land/

http://ctflier.com/index.php?/topic/1868-my-first-ctsw-experience/page__st__40 - starting post 48ish

[Ed Cesnalis]

After the recent conversations I have a few new thoughts.

1. It doesn't matter much if you approach faster what does matter in terms of speed is the speed at which you arrive at the runway threshold. I want to cross the threshold at 1.3Vso [ + half of gust factor].
   
2. If I am solo, light fuel and baggage Vso drops 5 kts. ( decreased gross weight of 20% calls for 10% reduction in stall speed )
   
3. If I am heavy Vso increases.
   
4. There are 2 ways to determine current stall speed to do a full stall landing.
   
   1. 
      
   2. Work the stick full aft as you touch down.
      
   3. Do a stall at altitude prior to your approach.
       
      

Question: How high must I raise the nose on a CTSW to stall just above the runway? I think in my skyhawk it was about 7 degrees. I have always had the mentality that my CTSW is at a stall attitude when it is level. I do like to raise the nose noticeably above the horizon but the CT will settle pretty quickly if you don't keep pulling back.

 

I see the CTSW as a pitch attitude airplane, meaning as long as my nose is low on approach I have little concern about stalling. The pitch attitude mentality goes away when realizing rapid sink, rapid sink at a level attitude leads to exceeding the critical AOA and even more rapid sinking as you stall.

 

Advancing your throttle is what saves your gear IMHO, landing fast won't always work, neither will the throttle so dead stick skills are important.

[FlyingMonkey]

sorry Andy,

does the topic discussed before?.

 

I don't mind, it's just funny how much virtual ink gets spilled on this topic!

[WmInce]

This thread is dead. Lets move on folks.

. . . "The only comment on this idiotic manuever is that its what it appears to be, dangerous, unsafe, and mostly a penis move." . . .

 

gbigs,

 

Can you please explain what you meant by that? :huh:

[WmInce]

Sure. We beat the stall landing subject to death twice. My opinion is that there are guys that will cling to stall landings no matter what they hear or learn in the contrary. And others of us that think stall landings are needless and less safe. Its a subject that has no end and no solution. Some of us think stall landings are less safe in cross winds and harder on the landing gear. Some think stall landings are the only way to go. Its a dead horse waiting to die again.

 

You made a reference to "penis move." What the heck is it? Is it an aviation term or just something you made up? I have never heard of such a thing.

[FastEddieB]

Bobby,

 

Please review each of those threads linked to by Craig earlier in this thread. Lots of good information there, with some good (and some bad) arguments made on both sides of the issue.

 

Suffice it to say, our FAA requires that a Private Pilot applicant be able to demonstrate a touchdown at approximately stall speed.

 

So every Private Pilot should at one point have been able to perform one safely.

 

Some, like myself and CharlieTango and others continue to land like that safely and without incident for their entire careers.

 

Others find extra speed on touchdown seems to aid their landings.

 

And never the twain shall meet!

[Bobby CAU]

After the recent conversations I have a few new thoughts.

1. It doesn't matter much if you approach faster what does matter in terms of speed is the speed at which you arrive at the runway threshold. I want to cross the threshold at 1.3Vso [ + half of gust factor].
    
   
2. If I am solo, light fuel and baggage Vso drops 5 kts. ( decreased gross weight of 20% calls for 10% reduction in stall speed )
    
   
3. If I am heavy Vso increases.
    
   
4. There are 2 ways to determine current stall speed to do a full stall landing.
   
   1. 
      
   2. Work the stick full aft as you touch down.
       
      
   3. Do a stall at altitude prior to your approach.
      

Question: How high must I raise the nose on a CTSW to stall just above the runway? I think in my skyhawk it was about 7 degrees. I have always had the mentality that my CTSW is at a stall attitude when it is level. I do like to raise the nose noticeably above the horizon but the CT will settle pretty quickly if you don't keep pulling back.

 

I see the CTSW as a pitch attitude airplane, meaning as long as my nose is low on approach I have little concern about stalling. The pitch attitude mentality goes away when realizing rapid sink, rapid sink at a level attitude leads to exceeding the critical AOA and even more rapid sinking as you stall.

 

Advancing your throttle is what saves your gear IMHO, landing fast won't always work, neither will the throttle so dead stick skills are important.

 

dear Charlie,

thanks and GREAT info ...

[Bobby CAU]

Bobby,

 

Please review each of those threads linked to by Craig earlier in this thread. Lots of good information there, with some good (and some bad) arguments made on both sides of the issue.

 

Suffice it to say, our FAA requires that a Private Pilot applicant be able to demonstrate a touchdown at approximately stall speed.

 

So every Private Pilot should at one point have been able to perform one safely.

 

Some, like myself and CharlieTango and others continue to land like that safely and without incident for their entire careers.

 

Others find extra speed on touchdown seems to aid their landings.

 

And never the twain shall meet!

 

thanks Eddie, appreciate it a lot ...

[Bobby CAU]

thanks to all friends in CT Flier who has comment, Im appreciate it ...

 

im attach my video link to cheers up everybody ...

[FastEddieB]

WHAT A PERFECT APPROACH AND LANDING!

 

Thanks for sharing that.

 

Everyone please note the stall horn, the stick all the way back...

 

...and no drama or damaged gear.

 

I'm going to save that link and use it as an example of what CharlieTango and myself and others aim for on touchdown.

 

Thanks again - in my book you're doing it just right.

 

BTW, I'll review it once more, but what was your flap setting? (I think it's that "30" above the quadrant - is it?)

[Bobby CAU]

WHAT A PERFECT APPROACH AND LANDING!

 

Thanks for sharing that.

 

Everyone please note the stall horn, the stick all the way back...

 

...and no drama or damaged gear.

 

I'm going to save that link and use it as an example of what CharlieTango and myself and others aim for on touchdown.

 

Thanks again - in my book you're doing it just right.

 

BTW, I'll review it once more, but what was your flap setting? (I think it's that "30" above the quadrant - is it?)

 

hello Mr Eddie,

thanks for the complimentary and i need it. hehehe ...

 

im using 30 for our aerodrome but 15 for normal airport.

my approach speed is 55kts and touch about 48kts, im pleased if you will using my video Eddie.

 

THANKS!!

[Ed Cesnalis]

dear CT Fliers fellow,

 

any one knew about STALL Landing?.

 

Just ask Bobby Cau

[Bobby CAU]

Just ask Bobby Cau

 

hahaha ...

sorry for the confusing topics Mr CharlieTanggo ...

it will not happen again

[Tom Baker]

WHAT A PERFECT APPROACH AND LANDING!

 

Thanks for sharing that.

 

Everyone please note the stall horn, the stick all the way back...

 

...and no drama or damaged gear.

 

I'm going to save that link and use it as an example of what CharlieTango and myself and others aim for on touchdown.

 

Thanks again - in my book you're doing it just right.

 

BTW, I'll review it once more, but what was your flap setting? (I think it's that "30" above the quadrant - is it?)

 

Eddie, CT's don't have a stall horn, unless his airplane is different. They use the Dynon AOA to indicate an approaching stall. The AOA has to be calibrated in flight per Dynon's procedure. Unless this is done correctly the audible alarm may not be a good indicator of a stall. I don't know if this is done at the factory or state side at the distributor, but I had one airplane that didn't even have it set up.

[FastEddieB]

Eddie, CT's don't have a stall horn, unless his airplane is different. They use the Dynon AOA to indicate an approaching stall. The AOA has to be calibrated in flight per Dynon's procedure. Unless this is done correctly the audible alarm may not be a good indicator of a stall. I don't know if this is done at the factory or state side at the distributor, but I had one airplane that didn't even have it set up.

 

Sure sounded like a stall horn!

 

Neither of my Citabrias had stall horns, so it not like they're required to fly safely.

 

Bobby - what activates the horn we heard in your plane?

 

In any case, the stick position told me what I needed to know about his speed on touchdown!

[FlyingMonkey]

Thanks for the video Bobby, that looks like a fun area to fly around in!

[Bobby CAU]

hi Eddie and Tom,

the german engineer helps me to upgraded my EFIS to the latest one, and this stall warning system (angle of attack).

in EFIS display has some arrow as well to show green, yellow and red it will be got sounds.

[Bobby CAU]

Thanks for the video Bobby, that looks like a fun area to fly around in!

 

hi Andy, THANKS.

when you will be in Jakarta for Holiday, drop by here ok ...

we will fly around.

[FlyingMonkey]

hi Andy, THANKS.

when you will be in Jakarta for Holiday, drop by here ok ...

we will fly around.

 

LOL, I'd love that, but it probably will not happen any time soon!

[chanik]

Speaking of stalls, I don't think I've ever seen a 747 stall before.http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c32_1367332518

[WmInce]

. . . " those insisting on their way or the high way are obviously insecure about their approach." . . .

 

Perhaps, but not necessarily.

 

The various methods which have been discussed can be categorized as "pilot technique."

Pilot technique is fine. There are numerous ways to safely land an airplane. We have had samples here.

When pilots "preach" that their way is better than others, that is where the line is crossed, between healthy discussion and ego driven "my way or the highway" philosophy. That really turns people off.

 

Of course, I speak for myself.

[CT4ME]

Wow... It looked like slow-motion. Without the fireball, it may have been survivable. I read the stall was caused by cargo shift to the rear on take-off.

Tim