Mogas enroute

[Roger Lee]

Like I said if straight gas without ethanol isn't available then don't sweat the ethanol fuel.

If you can get straight fuel great, but why go out of your way when your engine and CT fuel tanks don't care.

 

My comments are more towards ethanol use and 100LL. Straight gas is too far and few between for most of us.

[FlyingMonkey]

Is there any practical way to remove ethanol from gasoline, maybe by spinning it in a drum to separate the two?

[Roger Lee]

There is no way for us little people to do this. Some advertise washing it with water, but that also takes additives out and lowers the octane back down from 91 to around 87-88.

[Roger Lee]

If you have a CT it really isn't worth worrying about. Most of us use ethanol fuel and have been for the last 7 years with tens of thousands of accumulated hours with it.

[sandpiper]

If you have a CT it really isn't worth worrying about. Most of us use ethanol fuel and have been for the last 7 years with tens of thousands of accumulated hours with it.

 

 

Unless there are those out there still using the old plastic fuel filter. I would hope those are all gone by now.

[Ian]

......... Rotax no longer recommends 100LL and advises to use another fuel, but does say it can be used, not should be used.

 

Roger do you have a reference for this? I thought the only issue with using 100LL was the recommendation to decrease the hours between oil changes?

[Roger Lee]

Hi Ian,

It is in the SB and the new Rotax manuals

[Tom Baker]

Ethanol free gas is rare and will never be pervasive. The fight is to get E10 Mogas (and fight anything higher like E20) at FBO. Avgas 100LL has no future. Europe knows it, and the USA is lazy and hypocritical to allow 100LL to persist, even at airports.

 

Yes, Roger, sorry, I meant Ethanol zaps water. But since FD and Rotax have made their products bulletproof for Ethanol everyone should be pushing to get 91 E10 into as many FBOs as possible. The terrible problem of hauling gas and pumping it with crude gear is a shame considering Mogas is so easy to get. All they need to do is setup a small pump for the growing number of planes that will use alternative fuels.

 

The AOI supplement for the Rotax 912i says to use Mogas as the preferred fuel. And double oil change frequency if 100LL is used 70% or more. Adding TCP or Decalin kicks the price of already expensive 100LL up even higher.

 

The number of aircraft that can use fuel with ethanol is very small when compared to the number of aircraft flying. This along with the fact that most aircraft that can use auto fuel only require 87-89 octane fuel, and not the 91 required by the 100hp Rotax. While Rotax is OK with up to 10% ethanol added to the fuel not all aircraft can handle it. All type certified airplane that allow auto fuel with an SCT say no ethanol. What I'm waiting for is the day that aviation fuel has the lead removed, then the only reason to haul auto fuel to the airport will be cost.

 

BTW it is more than 30% 100LL that causes the maintenance intervals to be shortened, not 70%.

[S3flyer]

I'm not really holding my breath for approvals of alternative fuels but I dream of the day I can fill up at my home airport (and therefore support local small business) and not lug 5-gallon jugs. I'd be OK if the cost was closer to today's 100LL than the local gas stations E10.

 

In several countries in Europe, they are using 91UL (100LL without the lead) from Total. Cost is between 100LL and pump gas, closer to100LL. 91UL is an ASTM certified fuel and is approved by Lycoming and Continental for their lower compression 200hp and less engines. Obviously, would work great for us Rotax owners. Be nice if this 'avgas' could be made available to all the mogas airports. Our alphabets aren't pushing this direction. They are holding out for a single, drop in, replacement.

 

Also, have high hopes for Swift Fuel. 102 octane, 18% more efficient than 100LL but weighs 7lbs/gal. Throw in the 10% efficiency of the 912i and you could be cruising at 3.75g/h. Apparently, lots more testing to go although every test so far as passed with flying colors.

 

In the meantime, I'll be using E10 as much as possible and mixing with 100LL when I travel.

 

BTW -- E10 is less efficient that 100LL (or non-ethanol fuel) by around 3-4% according to the EPA.

[FlyingMonkey]

A smart airport would put gas pumps in a convenient place near their parking where they could sell to both automobiles and airplanes, and try to fill the tanks with ethanol free gas. I know a lot of drivers who know about fuels would drive out of their way to get non-ethanol gas...I would.

[Ian]

In Europe it seems to be economics that is driving the provision of Mogas (or not) at airports.

The supermarkets have a massive price advantage when it comes to selling petrol (gas to you guys over there) and historically the microlight fraternity have always lugged their jerry cans around to fill up from.

Group A aircraft fliers (which I was up till seeing the light and getting my CTLS two years ago) just gritted their teeth and bought 100LL at increasingly ludicrous prices.

Now we have the situation where there are an ever increasing number of Rotax (and similar _ Jabiru etc) powered aircraft who's owners would all prefer to buy Mogas - but on the volumes that go through small aiports the airport operators just cannot get anywhere near the supermarket prices. UL91 is starting to become available at some fields, but the price of that seems to be pitched just a tad below 100LL so it is not particularly attractive to the Mogas bretheren, bit is appealing to the Lycoming and Continental drivers who can make use of it.

So, it's diffilcult to see just where things are going for us on the east side of the pond!

[S3flyer]

gbigs -- Lycoming and Continental must approve a fuel in certified aircraft and it will typically (always) reference an ASTM standard. Experimental and SLSA are different beasts.

[Doug G.]

!! If you see water in your E10 you are in real trouble and will have to drain your tanks! Water won't separate from ethanol until it is saturated, at which point the octane will have been seriously lowered. Ethanol absorbs water until it reaches that saturation point.

[Tom Baker]

 

 

Thats what I said. The fuel is designed and approved by the ENGINE MAKERS. not the FAA or airports. Diesel, Avgas and Mogas are all in engines now. Rotax doesnt have diesel yet, but in time they will. Contintental and Lycoming are just getting around to it.

 

gbigs, you don't have a clue when it comes to the world beyond you CTLSi that you have on order.

Diesel aircraft engines are designed to run on JET A a new pump for diesel fuel at the airport will not be needed.

 

Lycoming and Continental are built under a type certificate issued by the FAA. If they decide they want to approve a fuel with ethanol the FAA has to give the OK as well. The FAA is closely involved in the approval of a different fuel for a FAA certified aircraft engine.

 

The aircraft manufacturer also needs a say because the fuel for that engine is stored in the aircraft and must flow through its systems. For older aircraft ethanol creates some major hazzards that has caused accidents in the past.

 

It's the airplanes that have been out there for 20, 40, even 60 years that will be the reason that ethanol fue will not be approved or located on airports.

[BMcCand - N248CT]

For my XC planning, I start with AOPA planner long distance to destination. Then plan a couple of hops per day of

2 to 2.5 hrs. I carry O2, so can to up to 10,000 (or 2,000 agl) as needed. Use airnav and adventurepilot.com for

the food/fuel stop and picking overnites. Always call the FBO fo crew car or suggestions for local hotels.

I usually get 100LL, mogas is too hard to find. I use Ipad+Foreflight for the brief and file. Having all

the briefing text cached is great. Also having approch plates+airport diagrams. I tend not to use moving map

en-route, using panel GPS396 instead. 100LL prices can be shown on maps.

This has worked out for a couple of literal XC trips, CA to Ma, OR to MA and back.

XM Aviator level is good to have. Wx radar, satellite, and updated Airmets. No, i don't dodge storms based

upon Nexrad, the delay is variable and long. But it will influence where to land if a front needs to blow by.

 

Happy XC travelling, a CT is cerntainly capable. I got some mountain dual @ Ogden UT last trip east, as I

was going higher. Take-away: check density alt, fly in mornings to avoid turbulence. Don't fly if winds 30k

at mountain level. If using passes, fly on upwind side, not middle. Be able to make a canyon turn 180,

but never get where you have to. approach ridges at 45 deg. See aopa asf mountain training.