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My Normal Landing


Ed Cesnalis

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Flaps 30, throttle closed is too close to stall or worse.

 

Most CTLS pilots use 15 flaps and enough power to make a nice smooth flair and touchdown. Here is a 10 year old landing in that config:

 

Watching Eric and his son work together is really fun, thanks for the video.

 

Your never ending rant "Flaps 30, throttle closed is too close to stall or worse" is getting old.

 

Flaps 30, throttle closed does not indicated closeness to stall. Maybe you want to rephrase that in a way that makes sense?

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Watching Eric and his son work together is really fun, thanks for the video.

 

Your never ending rant "Flaps 30, throttle closed is too close to stall or worse" is getting old.

 

Flaps 30, throttle closed does not indicated closeness to stall. Maybe you want to rephrase that in a way that makes sense?

 

I agree, because flaps 30° and throttle closed has nothing to do with a stall. It is just a configuration for the airplane. With the airplane configured like this I can fly anywhere from stall speed to the 62kt limit of the airframe. If I wanted to excede the limit I could fly faster.

 

CT, maybe you could change the title to to include MY in it somewhere, because that is not a normal landing for all who fly a CTSW.

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Tom,

 

I don't have the admin privileges to change a title.

 

Bigs,

 

Listen to Tom, configuration such as 30 degrees, closed throttle doesn't stall an airplane. You can fly confidently in this configuration as long as you have altitude and or access to energy.

 

The thing that does stall the plane is pulling the stick back, until you pull the stick back you are not risking a stall. Simply wait until you are close to the runway before pulling the stick back and the issue that you are hung up on goes away.

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Why do we video our technique? A: = To observe, analyze and demonstrate.

 

This video was made to demonstrate to FastEddie how a CTSW lands with flaps and closed throttle. Eddie's eye keyed in on airspeed, or margin above stall, at a given point in the approach or landing.

 

My CT has no stall warning horn or alarm, the pilot must rely on other means. ctflier.com has a stall warning and here it goes again: "Flaps 30, throttle closed is too close to stall or worse." Lets test this stall warning, maybe its calibration is off.

 

Sample: post-6-0-43051400-1371560608.jpg

 

Downwind to Base: 62kts - 1.59VSo

post-6-0-34478000-1371558516.jpg

 

Base 60kts - 1.54VSo

 

post-6-0-34478000-1371558516.jpg

 

Base to Final 60Kts - 1.54VSo

 

post-6-0-74471500-1371559196.jpg

 

Final - 60Kts - 1.54VSo

 

post-6-0-74471500-1371559196.jpg

 

Over the numbers - 54Kts - 1.38VSo

 

post-6-0-17919500-1371559377.jpg

 

inches above runway - 44Kts - 1.28VSo

 

post-6-0-18836100-1371559632.jpg

 

Touch Down - 39Kts - VSo

 

post-6-0-86818400-1371559736.jpg

 

Conclusion: The ctflier stall warning was not called for, it needs calibration. Margin from stall on this approach was far beyond 1.3VSo. There was no real risk of stalling.

 

"Flaps 30, throttle closed is too close to stall or worse." I have no idea what the 'or worse' means, perhaps I was also in danger of falling out of the plane?

post-6-0-93661600-1371559610.jpg

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I think the two "Ed's" have practically identical landing techniques.

 

Posted before, watch these two landings (play on high res and it should start about 4:30 in - airspeed is on the upper left, with Vso @ 39k):

 

 

I think we both play a little "loosey-goosey" with airspeed up to short final, keeping it a bit on the high side, as Ed pointed out. But during the roundout we both arrive in ground effect with very little excess speed to bleed off in the flare, and land as slowly as we can.

 

Ed - How about the same thing with full flaps? I'd like to compare the pitch attitudes on touchdown in each configuration.

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Ed - How about the same thing with full flaps? I'd like to compare the pitch attitudes on touchdown in each configuration.

 

We are currently experiencing a wind/weather event that is so significant they gave it a name: Spring. My approach was fast because the air is unstable. Getting tailwinded with 40 degrees and a closed throttle is always my concern. I'll shoot that approach next time the air feels heavy.

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  • 1 month later...

Ed - How about the same thing with full flaps? I'd like to compare the pitch attitudes on touchdown in each configuration.

 

I was going to do a 40° landing video today but I couldn't find my camera so I took an enthusiastic employee for a ride. He went for a ride once before and seemed utterly clueless so I didn't expect much. He was quite pleased when I offered him the controls and to my surprise he was a natural at doing coordinated turns. As the flight progressed I suggested different maneuvers for him to try and he quickly reported that if he led with the rudder it was easy to keep the ball centered. What a delight this was to witness.

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Nice landing CT and also an instructive video. As you know, I'm also in the max flaps camp and use 40 flaps for most landings but practice landing with all other flap settings, including -6. Here's a repeat of a video I've posted here before. My friend Phil is flying right seat in his CTLS and I'm taking this video. AS with your landing, this video also demonstrates the capability our CT's have when full flaps are utilized. Full flap landings are not to be taken for granted and require practice under all wind conditions. Phil has thousands of hours in all manner of rotary and fixed wing aircraft and has convinced me of the merits of full flap landing. Never a dull moment when he flies.

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We carried 15 flaps @ 65 kts going into the start of the video. The two flap changes made were going to 30 then going to max 35 flaps on this CTLS. Short final approach speeds are normally about 50 to 55kts under these settings however I cannot say for certain what speed Phil used for this particular landing - too busy being the camerman.

 

The mushroom covering is the standard "snag the microfiber window cleaning rag" material from the factory. Must just be the sun angle that makes it appear to be different. I wish I had the ability to get all of those who have never made a "good" full flap landing to go up with someone who is experienced using this technique (I'm still learning). There is so much more capability available in our CT's if full flaps are utilized. I'm not saying to use full flaps 100% but to just know that they are there and can provide both a needed tool during engine out landings and also provide a fun variable to use for short fields.

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