CTLS Baggage door

[Ian]

Has anyone had trouble with the baggage doors on the CTLS?

 

About 4 weeks ago, I started the aircraft at a field I'd been visiting and there was a loud banging noise from the starboard rear - I shut down and the tower called to say that the baggage door was open.

 

Now, I'm pretty sure I checked it, but hey we're all human, so I shut the door again, made certain it was locked and then flew home uneventfully.

 

Today - my friend who also flys my aircraft took off, had been airborne for about 10-15 minutes when he heard a loud banging from the rear, so he reduced power and returned to our home field, landed OK, but then found that the starboard baggage door was no longer there! Like me he's pretty certain that he checked it as shut in the pre-flight.

 

So, two different pilots, two instances of the baggage door coming open......

 

Any thoughts ?

 

PS - between the two incidents we have had at least a dozen flights with no issue with the baggage door

[sandpiper]

It is possible the latch was faulty or incorrectly adjusted. It is also possible that the door was not properly closed and latch fully engaged.

 

With more than one person flying the plane, or if the plane is on the ramp, or in a multiple user hangar, you need to check everything every time.

[Roger Lee]

I have only heard of this one other time. I always butt the doors with the palm of my hand smartly to make sure the latch is all the way in place. If you just push it shut it may not fully latch, but it will be closed until the vibration or wind pressure change yanks it open. If it opens in flight the strings will break away and it will be gone. They aren't meant to hold them in place if open during flight. You may not want that either if it beats the crud out of the fuselage.

 

Don't shut them softly, but with a little pop of the hand to make sure the latch seats fully. These doors are not cheap.

[Ian]

Thanks for the replies - Roger, I'm sure you're right they won't be cheap - nothing is in aviation!!!

 

The obvious answer is that we both didn't absolutely ensure 100% that the door was latched closed and we both accept that we may well have made that mistake - BUT - I think there may be an inherent problem in that there isn't really a positive engagement of the latch, turning the key just moves the lever to a position inside the frame and then relies on friction (both between the lever and the frame and within the lock) to hold it closed. With hindsight I should have checked the lock on the offending door to see if maybe it was "loose" in some way that would allow vibration to cause it to open.

[Tip]

I spoke to an LS owner that had lost a baggage door. He said that he had trouble getting one to fit. Luckily, the third one did.

[Ian]

I spoke to an LS owner that had lost a baggage door. He said that he had trouble getting one to fit. Luckily, the third one did.

 

Well that's encouraging LOL!!

 

With the poor delivery times for spares from Flight Design to the UK I'm starting to feel a bit despondent

[FlyingMonkey]

Just duct tape over the opening and call it good.

[Ian]

Just duct tape over the opening and call it good.

 

Who said Americans have no sense of humour ?

[ozairangel]

On my SW I found that adding compressable foam washers to the lower engaging pins on the door provided further engagement at the top latch and also reduce any movement in the door due to initial poor fit or wear. Worked for me!

[Tom Baker]

Ian, does your LS use the key lock like here in the states, or is it something different?

[Ian]

Oz - good tip, when I get my new door I'll see what can be done

 

Tom, yes, same key as the cabin door. And interestingly (or not!), I find from the CT parts list that when ordering a new door, the lock comes in a set of 4, each with 2 keys, because of course although ALL the ignition keys for CT aircraft are identical, the door keys are not - so beware, replacing a single baggage door means either replacing all the locks & keys, or carrying two different door keys!

[Tom Baker]

Oz - good tip, when I get my new door I'll see what can be done

 

Tom, yes, same key as the cabin door. And interestingly (or not!), I find from the CT parts list that when ordering a new door, the lock comes in a set of 4, each with 2 keys, because of course although ALL the ignition keys for CT aircraft are identical, the door keys are not - so beware, replacing a single baggage door means either replacing all the locks & keys, or carrying two different door keys!

A good locksmith should be able to make the new lock match your old key.

[Tip]

I checked mine today. Once you remove the key, the latch will not move.

[Doug G.]

Roger, there must be a difference between the SW and the LS. Pushing on the LS baggage door does nothing. If the pins are in and the lock bolt in place it really can't go anywhere unless the lock is loose and rotating, or the pins are broken. I have not looked at how they are fastened, but most of these type of locks are flat on one side and the hole is shaped to stop them from turning. Another thing I have seen (on other applications) is that the lock bolt (tab) is held by a center screw and the screw comes loose allowing the tab to swivel. I'll have to look when I get back to the hangar. If you were in the US I would know of a place to get a used baggage door Ian.

[Ian]

Having done a bit more investigation with the help of a very knowledgeable friend who handled the import of CTs into the the UK for many years we appear to have established that with "SOME" locks it is possible to turn, then remove the key so that you think the metal tongue is fully engaged but in fact it isn't - subsequent vibration can then cause the door to fall open. So from now on (or at least when I get my new door!!!) I'll be double checking the baggage doors on my pre-flight checks.

I think that may well be the effect Doug has just described and perhaps it is as simple as lack of friction holding the tongue on the lock body, so you turn the lock but the tongue doesn't turn all the way

 

Doug, thanks for your note re sourcing a used door from the US - price wise that might still be more attractive than getting a new one from Flight Design. However I'm mindful of Tip's earlier comment regarding it only being the third door delivered that actually fitted the aircraft!. Apparently the issue is that there are a number of moulds used for building the aircraft fuselage and slight discrepancies between different ones, so that add on bits like the baggage doors can end up being more or less specific to a particular aircraft and won't fit into another - therefore I think I'm constrained to ordering a new one from FD having given them the serial number of my aircraft so they can see what was delivered originally - then if it doesn't fit at least I have some comeback.

[Roger Lee]

Some doors do need fitting and some are out to far to fit. All our CT's are fitted at the factory and some parts do not interchange.

[Runtoeat]

Haven't give the baggage door much thought until this thread. Might be a good idea to add a strip of bolus tape to the top of my CTSW doors which can be removed/re-applied as needed to insure they remain latched. I have heard many stories about trying to find a door that fits older planes and don't wan't to have to go thru this fire drill.

[sandpiper]

Dick - no need for tape. Just check each latch from the inside. Does the pin extend properly into the catch with a "normal" door closure? If not, or if you have to fuss with it until it seats, then make adjustments until it does.

[Runtoeat]

Thanks John. I'll check the latch engagement. Both door latches seem to engage positively each time I close the doors but loosing one of these sure would ruin my day. Jus t thinking that a piece of inexpensive and hard to see white tape might be a good thing.

[Roger Lee]

This event has been rare. Only 1-2 people. If you are an SW just butt the door with the palm of your hand. If you are an LS once the key locks it give it a pull with the key in the lock. Double check the lock when it's open to see is the latch or lock is loose.

[207WF]

On my 2007 SW, the pins in the bottom of the baggade bay door slowly enlarged the holes in the airframe, resulting eventually in a rattling sound that made me return for a precautionary landing. Luckily, the door stayed on. I put a small rubber grommet (with some effort) into the holes and this has tightened things up nicely, no issues for the past three years with them. I keep the pins lubed with vasaline. WF

[Ian]

An update - despite a search of the area where we lost the door we couldn't find it so have ordered a new one from FD

 

The prices caused a sharp intake of breath (these are all in UK £ Sterling and have to have VAT added - currently 20% - that's not down to FD but our wonderful government)

 

KF52300101 Baggage Door Right – £431.32 + vat

 

C9997751E Cam Lock ZS 77 Keyed – £95.35 + vat for a set of 4 locks with keys (a set for 2 doors and 2 baggage doors).

 

They cant supply cut decals for a baggage door only, but can supply only right hand decals on fuselage for a half price i.e £183.33 + vat

 

So, a bit of internet searching and I've discovered that the Cam Locks are made by a german company Burg Wachter and they have a UK supplier who does the ZS77 for just £12 - so a bit of a saving there. I'm now looking for someone who can match up the decal colours to avoid having to buy a whole half-fuselage set !

 

So far I've not been quoted any delivery timescale I don't know whether they keep stock or have to make one.

 

Moral of the story - check and check again that the doors are secure

[Roger Lee]

You should be able to get the decal scheme (computer file) on a disk or on the internet through email and then take that to a sign shop and they can make you one. I have done that a couple of times. They can then pick and choose which decal out of the lot you need just for the door.

[opticsguy]

need some help. Yesterday, 600 nm from home, one of the pins fell of me left side baggage door. These looke like they are glued into place, but not very well. There is hardly any flange for the composite to grab.

 

Any suggestions to get home? One suggestion was to put a #8 bolt through the old hole (drilling it through first) and jam it with a nut and washer. That has to be better than nothing.

 

I don't really want to tape it, as I will be needing to open it every day on this trip.

[Ian]

If this is a CTLS then I'd be inclined to just use the one pin, engage and lock the door, then from the access panel behind the seat reach in and tighten up the cord that keeps the door from falling off when it's open. Hopefully that should make it secure enough to get you home - good luck

 

ps a month on from my incident & I still don't have my replacement door, I was promised it was being shipped from Ukraine to Germany last week but no confirmation yet!