josjonkers Posted July 11, 2013 Report Share Posted July 11, 2013 Terrible! http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=157545 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted July 11, 2013 Report Share Posted July 11, 2013 Always sad. None of the linked articles in your link give much of a clue as to the cause. Let's all go easy on the speculation until more is known. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted July 11, 2013 Report Share Posted July 11, 2013 How awful. Isn't this the first CT fatality in the USA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted July 11, 2013 Report Share Posted July 11, 2013 Elevation: 7,091' 'Preliminary investigation shows the plane crashed 200 feet short of the runway.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandpiper Posted July 11, 2013 Report Share Posted July 11, 2013 My thoughts and prayers are with those involved and their families. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted July 11, 2013 Report Share Posted July 11, 2013 Mains look in tact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted July 11, 2013 Report Share Posted July 11, 2013 Taos news. http://www.lamonitor...aos-plane-crash http://www.koat.com/news/new-mexico/one-person-dead-another-injured-in-taos-plane-crash/-/9153762/20922116/-/qya9fq/-/index.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted July 11, 2013 Report Share Posted July 11, 2013 One of the articles said the pilots were practicing an emergency procedure. I wonder if they got slow simulating an engine out leading to a stall/spin. The safety cell looks largely intact, despite the engine being just about ripped off of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted July 11, 2013 Report Share Posted July 11, 2013 One of the articles said the pilots were practicing an emergency procedure. I wonder if they got slow simulating an engine out leading to a stall/spin. The safety cell looks largely intact, despite the engine being just about ripped off of it. Sure looks like it to me. Maybe a return to the runway turn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted July 11, 2013 Report Share Posted July 11, 2013 Sure looks like it to me. Maybe a return to the runway turn? Either that or trying to make the runway from too far out and trying to stretch the glide, if that is what happened. We can never trust media reports though. It fits the damage too. If it hit severely nose low and fell over on its back afterwards, it would look just like that. Right down to the engine being torn off to one side like it is in the pic if it was rotating when it hit the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted July 11, 2013 Report Share Posted July 11, 2013 My CTSW is not very prone to dramatic stall or stall/spin entry. If I was trying to 'stretch' a glide and stalled I would be far less likely to spin then if I was attempting a steep/slow turn back. Even in a steep/slow turn back I wouldn't expect to be near spin entry if I was coordinated. My CTSW is well enough behaved to make this crash hard to envision without a steep/slow/uncoordinated turn. As soon as I read that they were both experienced pilots and they were training I thought about a turn back to the runway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT4ME Posted July 11, 2013 Report Share Posted July 11, 2013 Dang... 'thoughts and prayers to the families and those affected... First US fatal. But worth noting that safety cell was able to save one. Also, no fire. I can't help but think, had it been a 172, there would be a ball of tangled metal and not much else. tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chanik Posted July 11, 2013 Report Share Posted July 11, 2013 I think it would have to be a power-on stall/spin. I find that I cannot stall my CTSW at idle. It just mushes and waggles. But with full rear trim, a sudden added power trim stall would fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandpiper Posted July 11, 2013 Report Share Posted July 11, 2013 Mine stalls just fine with power off. Not a big deal, but it will buffet and break without accelerating it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted July 11, 2013 Report Share Posted July 11, 2013 I think it would have to be a power-on stall/spin. I find that I cannot stall my CTSW at idle. It just mushes and waggles. But with full rear trim, a sudden added power trim stall would fit. The only times I have had a CTSW break hard in a stall have been at idle with full flaps and a little uncoordinated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandpiper Posted July 11, 2013 Report Share Posted July 11, 2013 Some more thread creep, try this: power off flaps 15 15 degree bank ball out one full ball to the outside (skidding) pull gently but constantly until it stalls the break should be towards the bottom wing. If not experienced with this, have an instructor onboard. Make sure you are at sufficient altitude for safe recovery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chanik Posted July 15, 2013 Report Share Posted July 15, 2013 That's true. I recall having to actively work the rudder. Then it won't properly stall, but it wants to fall off to a side Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT4ME Posted July 20, 2013 Report Share Posted July 20, 2013 More info on the crash... pilot and pax identified... http://www.taosnews.com/news/article_90e89aee-efd8-11e2-8d50-001a4bcf887a.html tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted July 20, 2013 Report Share Posted July 20, 2013 Wow, if a 30,000 hour pilot can get bitten, anybody can. Please everybody be careful up there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted July 22, 2013 Report Share Posted July 22, 2013 How horrible. Thoughts and prayers to the family. Clear skies, no wind, 30,000 hour retired airline captain, sad indeed. Not much written about the condition of the 2nd on board whom the article says was "flying the plane" (wondering if thats a guess based on left seat, right seat or a known fact?). If the second on board is able to talk and recover than much more will be known about the incident (which may be helpful to us all). If the plane was Dynon equipped there may be some additional history recorded inside the Dynon itself. We will have to watch for updates on this one to see what is learned. The report also states: "...Witnesses told FAA investigators that the plane rolled violently through the air before hitting the ground near the runway. Impact marks at the scene indicated the plane landed on its nose and right wing..." Sure sounds like stall/spin of some type. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Meade Posted July 22, 2013 Report Share Posted July 22, 2013 I wonder how much recent CT time the retired captain had? I recall a retired United 747 captain came to our local flying club, got checkout in the Citabria, and promptly put it on it's back. Many big iron pilots are utterly incompetent to fly VFR because they never do and the old ones have not kept up with the changes. I wonder if the plane hit on the nose and wing or if a landing gear was involved in any way? Would make a big different in energy absorption, I'd think. If the survivor has any brains, he will be talking with a good aviation lawyer and will happily answer questions put to him in writing, well after hospitalization and any anesthesia wears off. So, it's hard to tell how much of the truth we will get, how much of the truth will be simply omitted, and how much of the truth will be untrue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted July 22, 2013 Report Share Posted July 22, 2013 "Witnesses told FAA investigators that the plane rolled violently through the air before hitting the ground near the runway." I hate to speculate, but it sounds to me like they might have flown through an invisible dust devil on final. I've hit small ones several times at about that altitude and been upset in all three axis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opticsguy Posted July 24, 2013 Report Share Posted July 24, 2013 Midday in the desert. That's dust devil time. Or possibly a strong gust from behind which would be death at close to stall speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darryl Posted August 5, 2013 Report Share Posted August 5, 2013 Here is the NTSB preliminary report: dms.ntsb.gov/aviation/AccidentReports/oy5ipeyujza4up45i0u2l2vq1/F08052013120000.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josjonkers Posted August 5, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2013 Here is the NTSB preliminary report: dms.ntsb.gov/aviation/AccidentReports/oy5ipeyujza4up45i0u2l2vq1/F08052013120000.pdf The mystery surrounding this deepens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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