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Strong crosswind landing video CTSW


GravityKnight

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Hmm...now I am confused. I roll the trim wheel all the way to the rear, so the pin is at the back stop. That is full nose *up* trim. In that trim condition the airplane almost holds 55kt, but not quite, so I hold a tad bit of aft stick to keep it there. Are we saying the same thing or doing completely opposite techniques?? Of course you are power off and mine was with a little power left in.

 

That sounds goofy, if you need full nose up and back pressure to slow to 55 that means your trim speed range at 30° begins at a speed above 55 and gets faster yet as you trim nose down. My 30° trim speed range goes from ~60kts ( full nose down ) to ~45kts ( full nose up )

 

Please confirm, you run out of nose up trim and have to hold back pressure to slow more.

 

One reason I don't like holding back pressure is that I like to have a neutral stick and know that there is a lot of aft stick available to flare and arrest sink.

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My instructor taught me to go idle throttle abeam the numbers, when the speed allows add flaps (whether 15/30/40) and go to full nose up trim at the same time. Set pitch 55-60kt (whichever you are shooting for) and maintain through the remainder of the pattern. Craig has the same instructor, he can confirm this (or tell me I learned it totally wrong).

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It sounds like a preference thing. Trim back if you want to hold a little backpressure, trim down if you want forward pressure.

 

Trim for your approach speed and don't hold pressure. Why would you want to hold forward or back?

 

BTW; Aren't you saying that backwards? If I wanted to hold back pressure I would trim down. If I wanted to hold forward pressure I would trim up. I want my stick centered so I trim the pressure off.

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IMHO the full nose up trim is not helpful. It is arbitrary, not the same on every CT, and it doesn't represent a trimmed condition for your approach beyond abeam the numbers. The reason you think you want to hold pressure is probably by trimming full nose up for your approach you are forcing your self to hold pressure, it has become the norm.

 

Try this,

  • arrive abeam the numbers in a trimmed condition.
  • Close throttle and Deploy 15°
  • Forget the full nose up trim
  • Control the nose as it reacts to the 15° ( balloons, yaws )
  • It only takes a few seconds so hold the nose level with back pressure to slow to 62.
  • Deploy 30° and forward stick to level wingtip.
  • Find 55kts
  • Trim off pressure, should be nose down and lots of it.

There never was a need for full nose up it forces you to fly out of trim, defaults to slowest speed, sets you up for a trim stall.

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Trim for your approach speed and don't hold pressure. Why would you want to hold forward or back?

 

BTW; Aren't you saying that backwards? If I wanted to hold back pressure I would trim down. If I wanted to hold forward pressure I would trim up. I want my stick centered so I trim the pressure off.

 

I want to trim the pressure out, but run out of trim, so some back stick is required to hold speed.

 

I will try your method and report back. I am not saying what I'm doing is the best or even a good way, just that it is what I was taught.

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If you are trimming full nose up you are running out of trim because you are trimming to the stop. You need to trim nose down, 55kts(at idle) requires a big pitch change and a pronounced nose down approach.

 

I agree you are doing what you where taught but teaching you to trim full nose up instead of trimming pressure off is problematic. It forces your to hold forward pressure to maintain a safe / planned approach speed. You have to actively do something to maintain a safe margin above stall when you could instead set it and monitor it rather than actively maintain the speed.

 

You can either trim for 55kts at 30° or you can't, try it first at altitude. If you can everything gets easy.

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Hi Andy,

 

I'm with Ed ( I am a lot of times, I just don't tell him that), don't trim full back, keep it neutral.

 

I prefer to trim to keep better control, but also to keep extra stress off the stab bracket and pivot point. Makes approaches or any other maneuvers easier and less of a hassle. I can trim on approach and fly it hands off. Nice easy approach then gentle controlled steady back pressure to round out and let her land.

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...

Obviously as time in the machine builds, everything gets easier/better results etc. I don't have a ton of time, but already a lot of these things have gotten much easier to do, or to avoid depending on the issue..I've noticed that of course excess speed can lead to ballooning the flare, but having proper trim can help negate this as well. It's a touchy moment, and when you are trimmed to bring the plane down (instead of fighting it down w/ pressure on the stick). The flare is just slightly less touchy, and it's a bit easier to control. Been my experience anyway.. only time controlling the flare just how I want to becomes an issue though now is fighting a good crosswind. Just a lot of stuff going on.

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Ballooning comes from a heavy hand and too much back pressure on the stick and bouncing usually comes from wanting to set the CT down before it's ready to land. Just hold the stick still against your leg and only gently and slowly add back pressure as it settles. The plane will land when it's ready and land smoothly. The CT won't bounce at 40-50 or even 60 if you don't give it reason to by applying to much back stick and allowing it to get back in the air. Bouncing, ballooning or drifting off to the left side is all from incorrect stick and or rudder application. Don't force the landing just let it happen. It will get easier with time as almost all of us has found out. Many say it takes 100+ landings or hours to feel good about good repeatable smooth landings.

 

Just keep practicing and and as you say some things get easier or you get better in avoid the not so good things.

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Yea I'm getting to where I rarely balloon or bounce now. I've never had a hard hit... YET :)

 

I used to be my first landing of the day wouldn't be real impressive, but now I can usually even pull that one off nicely haha.

 

I have practiced landings more than anything else though.. by far.... slowly but surely it pays off

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One problem with stick pressure is it depends on airspeed. If you go fast, a little control surface deflection may translate into a lot of lift and then you are in a balloon. That same amount of stick pressure at a slower speed would not translate into the lift and thus no balloon.

 

Don't try to replicate stick pressure. As Roger says, slow and steady application will do the trick but it won't be the same amount of application at all speeds.

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