Control Stick Centering Springs

[WmInce]

Does anybody have any comments regarding the "centering springs" on the control sticks?

Are all Flight Design airplanes equipped with them?

Are the tensions adjustable for each airplane model? What does the adjustment entail?

 

I have flown aircraft before which had centering springs. They provided an "artificial feel."

 

The CTLS that I flew, had control stick centering springs and they felt pretty stiff to me. And it seemed peculiar, that the tension was different between the fore and aft axis verses the lateral axis. I didn't care for that too much. Matter of fact, it was flat uncomfortable.

 

Is that something you just have to get used to in all CT's?

 

Comments appreciated from all.

[Ed Cesnalis]

I see it as a trade off, I am quite grateful for 3-axis trim even if i am not a fan of how it is done.

 

I am used to very light aircraft being rudder dominant and lighter in pitch than roll, the CT feels like an improvement over other very light designs. I assume my CTSW with the shorter wings rolls a little easier than the LS.

[Roger Lee]

Hi Ed,

 

The main difference between the SW and LS is just the control setup inside the plane. The LS is a little stiffer setup than ours. After flying helicopters I much prefer the lighter stick. It's not any harder than other aircraft it's just different and all in what you get used to.

[WmInce]

. . . "The main difference between the SW and LS is just the control setup inside the plane. The LS is a little stiffer setup than ours. After flying helicopters I much prefer the lighter stick. It's not any harder than other aircraft it's just different and all in what you get used to." . . .

 

Roger,

 

I was hoping you would chime in on this.

 

I also prefer lighter stick forces. The "force trim" on the Huey was very stiff. I would never use it during flight. I always preferred just a little cyclic friction to the stick. It worked really well and kept many pilots from "over-controlling."

 

For comparison, I guess I will just have to go fly an SW. Of course . . . it won't have "fuel injection" though. :huh:

[Doug G.]

Is there much of a difference in the length of the wings from the SW to the CT? I thought the biggest difference was in the length of the fuselage.

[Ed Cesnalis]

You are right Doug. 28' on both.

[FlyingMonkey]

I think the only wing difference is the tips, winglets (LS) vs. droop tips (SW).

[sandpiper]

Roger,

 

I was hoping you would chime in on this.

 

I also prefer lighter stick forces. The "force trim" on the Huey was very stiff. I would never use it during flight. I always preferred just a little cyclic friction to the stick. It worked really well and kept many pilots from "over-controlling."

 

For comparison, I guess I will just have to go fly an SW. Of course . . . it won't have "fuel injection" though. :huh:

 

I never had much use for the force trim either, even during IMC. Huey was a delight to fly, just keep your wrist/forearm welded to your leg.

[WmInce]

. . . " just keep your wrist/forearm welded to your leg." . . .

 

Yep! That was key.

 

Last time I flew one was December '88.

I miss the Huey.

[sandpiper]

Summer of '78. That was when the Guard said I needed to go to Armor advanced and give up flying much so I could have command time. I pulled the pin. Had no interest in tanks. Of course, right after that they formed the aviation branch so a RLO didn't really need to go back to their old branch. Probably should have reverted then they would have left me alone.

[Tom Baker]

there is also a difference in the roll control forces between the early LS's and the later ones.

[WmInce]

. . . "there is also a difference in the roll control forces between the early LS's and the later ones." . . .

 

How so Tom?

 

Are the earlier models less stiff or more?

 

Is there any way to adjust the "stiffness" of the springs?

[Roger Lee]

The LS had a few planes that had a horizontal control system in the luggage compartment and there were a few LS's that had a heavy stick, but FD went back to the vertical control system and lighter controls when some complained about the heavy stick. That was only a few planes, most are easy and light control and the SW tends to be even lighter in the controls. Pilots in the beginning didn't like the light controls and complained, so FD listened, but went too far then the pilots complained it was too heavy so FD came back towards the lighter controls. It really doesn't make any difference how light they are. It's all in what you get used to and so the pilots got used to those lighter controls verses the brick feel in a 182.

You should not mess with the springs.

[Jim Meade]

I share the unhappiness with the stick and rudder centering springs which add an artificial feel and are also unbalanced. Fly an RV-6 and one experiences what a good airplane should fly like. The Tecnam P2008 is much better balanced than my CT. The Jabiru 250 is even worse. This is not a question of getting used to it or having been trained a certain way or in certain aircraft. It is the result of design decisions. Not all airplanes feel this way. The question is, what can be done about it?

[WmInce]

The LS had a few planes that had a horizontal control system in the luggage compartment and there were a few LS's that had a heavy stick, but FD went back to the vertical control system and lighter controls when some complained about the heavy stick. That was only a few planes, most are easy and light control and the SW tends to be even lighter in the controls. Pilots in the beginning didn't like the light controls and complained, so FD listened, but went too far then the pilots complained it was too heavy so FD came back towards the lighter controls. It really doesn't make any difference how light they are. It's all in what you get used to and so the pilots got used to those lighter controls verses the brick feel in a 182.

You should not mess with the springs.

 

Thanks Roger.

[WmInce]

I share the unhappiness with the stick and rudder centering springs which add an artificial feel and are also unbalanced. Fly an RV-6 and one experiences what a good airplane should fly like. The Tecnam P2008 is much better balanced than my CT. The Jabiru 250 is even worse. This is not a question of getting used to it or having been trained a certain way or in certain aircraft. It is the result of design decisions. Not all airplanes feel this way. The question is, what can be done about it?

 

Thanks for the feedback Jim.

[Doug G.]

I know one person who had his early LS converted to the newer system because of the heavy stick. Not sure why the cost was.

It was DocRon. He hasn't been on the forum for a while, but Roger Lee, you could ask him about it when you next see him.

[WmInce]

I know one person who had his early LS converted to the newer system because of the heavy stick. Not sure why the cost was.

It was DocRon. He hasn't been on the forum for a while, but Roger Lee, you could ask him about it when you next see him.

 

For those of us who do not care for the heavy stick forces, that is promising.

Would like to hear from DocRon on the issue.

 

Thanks Doug.

[Doug G.]

All I know is that the conversion was done in Stanton. You could call them about it.

[Doug G.]

DocRon is in the middle of a move to AZ so will probably be a whole before he gets back on here.

[Roger Lee]

I'm doing his hose change, wing inspection and annual right now. His was one of the first LS's. He now lives in Camp Verde, AZ full time now. His control setup in the baggage compartment is horizontal compared to most of you other LS guys so the control input is different.

[Jim Meade]

Kent Johnson in Stanton has experience with other stick force adjustments, as well. I was talking with him just today about this topic.

[Doug G.]

It is different than the original though, isn't it Roger, I am not certain of the operation, but I know he was very pleased when the new configuration was installed. His had gotten extremely stiff. I believe it took parts from FD for a new control geometry.

[Runtoeat]

Hi Roger. You may recall my phone call to you a while ago where we discussed a forum member with the older control system who had excessive efforts? I'll give him a notice that you are working on a CTSW that has been modified to improve this. He might want to give you a call.

[Roger Lee]

I haven't talked to him about it so I don't know what was done.