FlyingMonkey Posted July 30, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2013 http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj277/MrMorden00/image_zps39bf6406.jpg What do I got? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandpiper Posted July 30, 2013 Report Share Posted July 30, 2013 You got the Italian jobs. And a nice plane. Your panel is a lot like mine with steam on the right. Also some useful, to me, specs about what kills the most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT4ME Posted July 30, 2013 Report Share Posted July 30, 2013 Perhaps the worst thing about the Italian brakes was the "pumping" needed by many of us. It must have been some sort of common defect or failure, because a lot of us were forced to pump the brakes to get any pressure. For some, that problem never happened. Regardless, the Matcos offer cheap pads and rebuild kits, adjustability, better braking area, and more PSI from the master cylinder. tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandpiper Posted July 30, 2013 Report Share Posted July 30, 2013 You could just dump in the Matco master but that would just leave you wanting more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted July 30, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2013 Is this something that appears over time? Because my brakes currently seem quite grabby and fade resistant at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted July 31, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 You got the Italian jobs. And a nice plane. Your panel is a lot like mine with steam on the right. Also some useful, to me, specs about what kills the most. Thank you much. At first I wished for a D120, but now I'm kind of digging the dials. I only wish I had a fuel flow meter. I'd like to know exactly what I'm burning for planning purposes. Now I have to do math, how 20th century. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandpiper Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 Is this something that appears over time? Because my brakes currently seem quite grabby and fade resistant at the moment. Yes, happens over time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted July 31, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 Yes, happens over time. Sigh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 As a data point, my Marc Ignegnos are doing well after 350 hours. One key is to lube the pins the rotor slides on. I use disk brake lubricant (sparingly) and do it monthly. My right brake was a bit mushy for a while. Bleeding did not help, but somehow it resolved itself. BTW, on any plane with a castering nosewheel, it's a good idea to check the brakes as part of the "Before Landing" checklist. Since a failed brake is a big deal, it might lead one to a longer and/or wider runway for what could be an interesting landing. Anyway, still on the original pads. Recently my left brake was dragging and I had to dismantle it and clean the wheel cylinder bore. Will do a little photo essay on it soon - in a motel headed towards Oshkosh right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 The Italian brakes make nice targets out at 200 yards. :wacko: The replacement pad set for the Marc brakes are about $170 and $30 for the Matco's. The Matco's don't have the same heat fade as the Marc's. The Matco's became standard equipment for FD in Jan. 2009, including the front wheel. The Matco master Cyl. is about $115 and the Marc master cyl. about $190+. The Marc wheels are stamped out, thin and physically change size depending on the pressure in your tires, which affects how the disc moves on the 4 pins. The Marc master cyl. puts out 65K psi and low volume and the Matco master puts out 118K psi and almost twice the volume. The Marcs have 4 generation old technology. They try to float the disc and made the calipers solid. Ass backwards. All our stuff here in the US has a floating caliper and solid disc. The Marc disk get hung up on the 4 pins for numerous reasons. Most eventually have to pump their brakes because some genius at Marc put springs in the calipers to push the pads away from the disc so as the disk wears thin the pads have more distance to travel to the disk and the pumping starts. These springs can be removed which will help your problem and by adding a Matco master cyl. it will help too, but the only way to have better and more trustworthy brakes is to remove, shoot and put the Marc brakes out of their misery and install Matco's. You could drag your feet to stop and do as well as some of the Marc brakes that some have replaced here. I will agree that a limited few have had some success with the Marcs. These same people should be playing the lottery. I would hazard a guess that well over 100 CT owners have switched to Matco and I may have done around 40 in my shop. Don't get the wrong idea, I love the Marc brakes!!!! They make great targets. You can't even give them away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted July 31, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 Will do a little photo essay on it soon - in a motel headed towards Oshkosh right now. I want to stay in a motel that will head to Oshkosh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted July 31, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 Okay Roger...when the time comes, what should I budget, parts and labor, for the Matco swap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 40 in his shop... and 2 in my hangar at KHHR. Andy, save some pennies... When you have $750 to $1000 (whatever the going rate is today) get your brakes and wheels replaced with Matco. For me, the no brainer reason isn't the stopping power of the Matco's (which runs a close second) as much as it is the elimination of tire slippage, rotation and the danger of shearing off the valve stem on landing and losing control. The Itallian wheels don't have a lot of surface area where the tires mount and are known to slip on the wheel when you touch down. The Matcos have very good tire gripping and are less prone to slippage (but still happens from time to time). I'd highly recommend that with any wheel, you use a permanent marker or torque seal to mark a line from the edge of the wheel onto the tire. As a part of your pre-flight when you inspect wheels / tires you can easily see visually if the tire has rotated on the wheel. If it has, your lines will not line up anymore. I mark my wheels/tires every 90 degrees so I can always see a mark without having to move the plane to find them. If you see slippage you can fix it before it shears a valve stem on takeoff or landing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted July 31, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 Thanks Adam. The cheaper parts are a plus too. What is the best tire pressure to run in the standard wheels with non tundra tires? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 What he said, "Andy, save some pennies... When you have $750 to $1000 (whatever the going rate is today) get your brakes and wheels replaced with Matco. For me, the no brainer reason isn't the stopping power of the Matco's (which runs a close second) as much as it is the elimination of tire slippage, rotation and the danger of shearing off the valve stem on landing and losing control. The Italian wheels don't have a lot of surface area where the tires mount and are known to slip on the wheel when you touch down. The Matcos have very good tire gripping and are less prone to slippage (but still happens from time to time)." The Matco's do a much better job at preventing tire slippage with low air pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 Andy, If you are running the 4.00-6 6 plys then 35 psi is good. If you are running the 8 plys then higher pressures of 45 are necessary, but FD doesn't really approve that pressure because they only did their drop test at 35 psi. The 8 plys are an okay tire, but they are stiff and need more pressure to keep their shape and hold enough bead pressure to keep them from rotating on the Marc wheels. The Matco's are better suited to prevent tire rotation because the inner sides are roughed up to help stop any tire rotation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 They try to float the disc and made the calipers solid. Ass backwards. All our stuff here in the US has a floating caliper and solid disc. As a data point, another of my hobbies is motorcycling. My BMW K1200RS, my KTM 950 Adventure and my Buell Firebolt all have solid calipers and floating rotors. And stop with authority. So, it's apparently not an unworkable arrangement. In spite of being ass backwards! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 Some ass backwards things work despite their design as most of us have seen through the years. You just never know. The question then begs of all of us. "How many as seen on TV" Ronco $19.95 specials have we bought? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Meade Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 My CTSW Italian brakes are still working fine at 300 hours. My friend's are still good at 650 hours. Stop and talk to the Matco people at Oshkosh AirVenture. They know Roger by name and are happy that he has sold 40-50 sets of brakes for them. When your brakes quit, fix them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 Agreed, no use fixing something if there is no gain or there is not a problem. They haven't just sold 40-50 because of me, i just installed that many. They got the entire FD contract and I have sold almost 80-90 world wide for the replacement. Matco sold some more from some direct sales. I'm sure Mtco is happy. They have landed other LSA Mfg business too because of all the LSA Matco press. They have grown and they are booming. Good for George. Although the gain could be a very useful and rewarding target using the Marcs. They excel at this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandpiper Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 Vans uses Matco for the RV-12 of which 750 kits have been sold. They may spec them on others, too but I don't know for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted August 4, 2013 Report Share Posted August 4, 2013 As a data point... ...I got to see the latest revised Sky Arrow at Oshkosh. Mostly minor updates, the biggest being more fuel, going from 18 to 29 gals. But they also changed brake and wheel manufacturer to a French Brand, Beringer: Maybe the Italian military contracted with Marc Ignego for targets and that took priority over airplane brakes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted August 4, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2013 Wow, 11 more gallons is HUGE. How useful is that though, in a Sky Arrow? They are heavier than a CT. Is the gross over 1320 on the new one? Does anybody have a link to replacement tires and tubes for the 4.00 tires? I'd like to get spares to keep handy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted August 4, 2013 Report Share Posted August 4, 2013 http://www.desser.com/store/brands/Aero-Classic.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Meade Posted August 5, 2013 Report Share Posted August 5, 2013 Wow, 11 more gallons is HUGE. How useful is that though, in a Sky Arrow? They are heavier than a CT. Is the gross over 1320 on the new one? Does anybody have a link to replacement tires and tubes for the 4.00 tires? I'd like to get spares to keep handy. Roger's link worked. I bought a couple of 400X4 for the nose from the Dresser booth at OSH and the tires where at the house the day after I got home. I also bought a Mataco wheel for the nose. That lets me have a spare fully mounted. The tires on CT's seem to have a habit of being fine when you put the plane away, but going flat over night. Replacing the entire unit is a much faster and cleaner job than demounting and mounting a tire, so I now have both a main and nose fully assembled. Can take one with me if I feel the need to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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