FlyingMonkey Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 First, my background: I'm a sport pilot in Georgia based at KWDR, with about 55 hours total time and six in a CT. I have my D/C/B airspace endorsement. I think I have good stick and rudder and flight planning skills. My CT landings are not awesome, but not bad either. They are just not yet as consistent as I want. Now the setup: my wife has family in Michigan, and her nephew is getting married at the end of August. We are leaving the 21st to attend. It's a 19 hour trip. And the question: Do I have time to adequately prepare well enough to safely fly us up in the CT and save about 14 hours (each way) in a vehicle? I have ever done a cross country nearly that long, but the airspace route is uncomplicated if I bend the route a little to avoid the Cincinnati class B. I would fly into KRQB, about 540nm each way. My plan would be to fly every day that weather allowed, hitting lots of local airports and doing some longer cross countries on the weekends. On such a long trip weather is obviously a factor, and I would not launch unless weather looked good over the route. My plane has XM weather. Can I safely do this, or is it a bad idea? I wish it were at the end of September, but it's not. The idea of saving so much travel time is exciting, but I don't want to let that lure me into a bad decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 The weather is the issue, not your skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug G. Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 The issue I would have is that you sound like you definitly need to be there. Do you also need to be back at a certain time? If both are true, I would not chance it. It is one thing to know you are going to have bad weather and cancel the flight and drive, but it is a different problem if you need to get back and the weather is iffy. The best choice at that point would be to rent a car and return for the plane another day. If you are going to be reluctant to make that decision, drive. I really like to tell people how much travel time I save...especially when my fuel costs end up less than it would have been to drive...but I am retired so if I go somewhere I will stay there until it fits my standards for flight. (Notice I said "my" standards, not the POHs, not a friends, or my spouse, or anyone else's.) If I wake up in the morning after the TV weather said it is going to be a wonderful day to fly and the ceiling is low and the winds high, I am disappointed, but I don't go. Stay safe! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 When I get home from Oshosh, let's talk. FWIW, we're just north of Louisville in our Element, on the way to Racine tomoorow, then to Oshkosh on Thurs. The last hour or so of driving was in the rain. We were ready to fly the trip, but discretion is the better part of valor, and all that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted July 31, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 We do need to be there, but if we go trapped by weather the family (and more importantly the wife) would understand. So we need, but don't NEED to get there. The nice thing is that we can literally decide the morning of the flight...if it doesn't look good, we pile into the Honda and make the drive. Return is flexible. I'd love to talk it out with you Eddie, give me a shout when you get home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Meade Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 I doubt if you'd save 14 hours. Maybe 10. Time seems to have a way of not matching plans. Is your wife good for this flight? Does she have a lot of time in LSA? One doesn't want to have a bad flight and end up souring her by overdoing it. It would be quite an undertaking. One would want it to be rewarding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandpiper Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 Technically you probably would not need a fuel stop. However, it would be wise to plan one. Each stop takes at least an hour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT4ME Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 With the time of the year, and everything else, I'd drive. But, that being said, I was lured into a similar flight not long after getting my ticket. Big class reunion. Phoenix to near Seattle, mid-September. Weather turned out to be perfect, with tailwinds, both ways. Lucky. Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 If you've time to spare go by air !!! Flying purely VFR you can never guarantee anything - it's flying for the pure enjoyment of flying. I think your decision should be based on the two questions: 1: How would my wife feel if we'd had to divert for weather and she missed the wedding? 2: Would my own life be worth living after that? Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted July 31, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 Thanks for the great responses guys. Some more thoughts and information: 1) My wife is super supportive of my flying, and we talked a lot about this flight. I told her there are no guarantees, and she's cool with it. She likes the idea of saving time but understands if it doesn't work out right it could cost us time on the order of days. 2) My wife does get motion sickness occasionally, usually if she is reading or looking at her iPad instead of out the window. She has flown a short hop with me before and had no problems, but we'd have to fly some longer legs to know if it would be an issue. 3) I'm definitely planning a fuel stop. With the bags we'd need, I could probably only carry 22-24 gallons of fuel, so I'd want to make a stop mid way through. Probably northern Tennessee, Indiana, or Ohio. I'll have to do the fuel calculations to pick the right spot. Even with a 1-2 hour turn around to stop, fuel, eat and stretch, the flight should save at least ten hours over driving. 4) We are leaving three days before the wedding date, so we'd have some weather delay cushion built into the plans. I know you can never tell and we could get socked in somewhere for a week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 If you have to ask others regarding a flight plan and the margins for safety you really are not ready for the flight... Yeah, Andy, what makes you think you can just get in your airplane and fly it to another airport? The proper procedure is to get ready first and then ask questions about getting ready. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Andy, Look in your wallet, that certificate issued by the FAA says that you are qualified to make such a trip. I don't think gbigs opinion supersedes your certificate. A trip of this duration is right in the CTs sweet spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N751JM Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 If your wife has only flown short hops with you, you should definitely do a longer flight with her, on the order of 2-3 hours, preferably with a bit of turbulence thrown in to see how she does. If need be, find a bumpy day and take her up for a couple of hours and see how she does. You are not trying to make her airsick, just ensure she knows how to keep from becoming airsick (look outside...). Also, if she can fly (hold heading and altitude) sometimes flying the plane will help a person from becoming airsick. For a long flight like what you've planned it is likely you may have some good flyable VFR weather but maybe some bumps. Also, if it were me, I'd plan 2-3 hour legs max and look for stops that had airports with crossing runways to minimize the chance of a direct cross-wind. If you get headwinds you might need two stops, not one. You could plan your flight both ways and use whatever will work best for the flight. BTW it looks closer to 590nm, per airnav.com. Finally, as others have said, you always want to have a plan B (and maybe C!). Weather or mechanical could require you to rent a car, take a commercial flight, or wait it out. Same can happen with a road trip of course, but there are far more services available it you have car trouble. On my VFR cross-the-country flights (and some IFR) I've had to wait, usually no more than 1-2 days, but on one trip we had a mechanical with the airplane and had to catch a commercial flight home and get the plane later. Make sure your bank account can support that! This is not to discourage you, just make sure you do thorogh planning and know your limits. It can be a great experience, a great way to see different parts of the country from the air, and a lot of fun. BTW my first "long" cross country after getting my Private many years ago was from Marietta GA to Wapakoneta OH with a fuel stop in Lexington KY. It was just to visit a college buddy, so I did not "have" to be there, but the flight went off without a hitch. Good luck, and remember there is no place you have to be that it is more important for you to arrive dead then not arrive at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S3flyer Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 I've found that after 3 hrs or so in flying small aircraft it's time for a stop whether it be for fuel, bio, leg stretching or other. Makes for a much more enjoyable trip (to me and my spouse) than trying to fly the longest leg possible. I disagree with John that a stop takes an hour -- I'd estimate about 30 minutes which is inclusive of the pattern, landing and take-off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted July 31, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 Three hours is definitely the limit for what I was thinking for legs. Skyvector says it's a 5:11 flight at 115 knots. So it might be 5 or it might be 7 if winds push us around. Either way it should only take one stop fuel-wise, but comfort-wise we might make two stops. So with a two-hour turn around (assuming we eat and hang out a while) it could take 7-9 hours total, add an hour if we make another quick comfort stop. So minus weather or mechanical delays I can't see it saving *less* than 9 hours each way. That's a long time in a car when you have an aching back... Sorry if asking for advice makes me weak or deficient in some way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N751JM Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 You can't learn if you don't ask. Asking for advice makes you smart.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralarcon Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 "Sorry if asking for advice makes me weak or deficient in some way." Clearly not, and some questions I had were answered in the discussion. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 The only people who don't need to ask are those that know everything already - says it all really!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug G. Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 Oh, how I want to comment! However, I have been told not to. Anyway, Andy, whenever you quit asking, you quit learning and in aviation, that is a bad thing. You'll notice that on this issue, as many others there is one contrary opinion amidst those with a ton of experience. I think you can tell the difference. Great questions BTW. Most of us learn from the responses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gmoore7 Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 Andy, Sounds like a good flying experience for you. Plan it so your stops are at an F B O with rental cars so if the weather changes you can still make the trip. Now everyone will be happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 Andy, Sounds like a good flying experience for you. Plan it so your stops are at an F B O with rental cars so if the weather changes you can still make the trip. Now everyone will be happy. Yeah, thats the way you do it! The other part is you might have to leave a day or 2 earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted July 31, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 Good idea Gary...I guess you always have to plan the ground ops too! So next consideration...what do I do with my airplane at RQB for a week? Should I call ahead and see if I can finagle some hangar space? The idea of the plane sitting out on the ramp for a week does not thrill me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercity Posted August 1, 2013 Report Share Posted August 1, 2013 You can do it! Set good personal minimums that leave plenty of margin, and stick with those minimums. Study the route and weather well, and have alternates picked out. Always know where good VFR weather is on your route. It's a relatively short hop in the CT and once you get a few trips under your belt you will find out how easy and amazing it really is. Weather is the major factor, having XM or other on board weather is great for maintaining situational awareness and being able to make good decisions along the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted August 1, 2013 Report Share Posted August 1, 2013 Have her buy some Marezine (across the counter) for her motion sick. it doesn't have a bunch of bad side affects and works quite well. One little tab last about 6-8 hours. The only bad affect on me is a get a little extra tired by the end of a long day. It desensitizes the hair follicles in the middle ear which cause the motion sickness and all the other symptoms. I use it any time for carnival rides, boats and flying when I know it's going to get ugly. I went on a cruise a couple years ago. The water got rough. Everyone else got sick, but me. Let her do a lot more flying and that will help, too. "2) My wife does get motion sickness occasionally, usually if she is reading or looking at her iPad instead of out the window. She has flown a short hop with me before and had no problems, but we'd have to fly some longer legs to know if it would be an issue." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted August 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2013 Marezine is safe for you to use while flying? That's cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT4ME Posted August 1, 2013 Report Share Posted August 1, 2013 Google search seems to indicate NO motion sickness meds have been OK'd by FAA.... except "ginger root" Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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