Straight in approach

[FlyingMonkey]

Hey all...

 

I fly from a non-towered airport here in Georgia, WDR. I was always taught to enter the pattern and fly it, either by a 45 into a midfield downwind or overflying the airport from the other side and doing a "teardrop" descending turn to get to the same 45. What I see is a lot of traffic flying "straight in approaches to landing, some from 7-10 miles out. Some are obviously practicing instrument approaches, but many seem to be VFR traffic just flying the easiest route into their chosen runway.

 

The question is...is a straight in approach to landing considered an acceptable approach to landing for VFR traffic, assuming no conflicts with traffic in the pattern) or are these pilots just bending the rules for convenience sake? I guess the real question is if they are making traffic calls along the way, but there is a conflict problem with other traffic (midair, near-midair, what have you) is the FAA going to ding them for it or just shrue and say "failure to see and avoid by all pilots involved"?

 

It's kind of annoying to be on downwind, having made calls all the way around the pattern, and then hear a big twin call "three mile straight in for runway 31", knowing that at the speed he's going and as tight a pattern as the CT flies, one of us WILL have to change what we are doing. I know, welcome to untowered airspace and all, but still...

[Ed Cesnalis]

Since I operate out of a non-controlled field where strait ins are the norm I'll offer my 2 cents. Strait ins are common here for a few reasons and the biggest reason is high terrain in the pattern, when you are abeam 27's numbers you cannot see the runway and you are about 250' AGL, most pilots avoid that. Another factor I think is that 27 has VASI lights and 09 does not, bigger planes land strait in and downwind on 27 a lot while I'm landing 09.

 

The traffic mix has changed here and now there is more traffic outside than inside. In other words when I am on downwind at TPA (8,000') the most common call I hear is another plane on downwind at 13,000'. This is even worse than a strait in because he's going to make turns as well.

 

The most common reason I fly a non standard pattern is to fit in with other traffic. Yesterday I took off on 09 and announced a strait out departure. The next call was a twin on short final for 27, watching for the light sport ( on a collision coarse ) so I changed my departure and turned north at mid-field.

 

If someone is flying strait in while I am in the pattern, it is helpful to call myself #1 for landing if I am in front of him, let it be his problem if he didn't get in line.

 

What is bad form at one field is the norm at another. The biggest local issues that I see are glider ops and sky diving ops that can make standard entries a bad idea.

 

When I'm approaching a field with no traffic, which is common out west and I'm on the runway heading I often announce a 10 or 5 mile final, traffic permitting, ...

[FlyingMonkey]

CT, that makes perfect sense at a field where you have high/obstructed terrain and such. And it might actually be pretty common everywhere, but I'm just wondering if it's acceptable to the FAA in the event of a mishap. If it is I might start doing it when there is no other traffic around and it's a PITA to get into a normal pattern position. My field is 940ft and flat all around with no really tall obstructions.

 

The only annoying part is when I'm clearly in the pattern making calls and they announce a too-close final on my runway or one on a conflicting runway. Had that happen too.

[Ed Cesnalis]

The type of mishap we are talking about is a collision. I"m not worried about enforcement in that event I'm worried about avoiding it in the first place.

 

Traffic will be willing to yield almost all of the time.

 

I might not like hearing that someone is on long final when I'm on downwind but in most cases someone is clearly in front and if there is no conflict then relax. Be courteous, willing to yield, and willing to go 1st and it will work out.

 

It is good to know that in your CT you can fly a tight pattern and cut a lot of time off.

[FlyingMonkey]

If I flew a large pattern in the CT I'd feel less safe, I like always being able to make the runway. I've had to extend downwind a couple of times to not cut off folks flying bigger patterns, but I don't mind that at all. Anything more than a mile from the runway in a CT is practically cruise flight.

[Jim]

Depends on the traffic. On a nice Saturday or Sunday morning with three planes in the pattern, I absolutely make a 45 entry. Weekday afternoons with no CTAF chatter for the last half hour, whatever. I always have me head on a swivel for the no-radio traffic and the cropdusters.

[Jim Meade]

I am not an FAA lawyer. My bet would be any issue would involve who had right of way. A person flying a standard pattern would be violated if they tried to land before a plane on a long straight in that was lower and ahead of the standard guy.

This thread will quickly turn into a discussion we've all seen before, so I won't be the one to initiate it.

I will say that yesterday I was out flying with a friend. We were doing pattern work at Washington, IA working 13 and a Cherokee called in from the north on a straight in to 18. We looked and didn't see him. I called downwind 13 and he called final 18. I called again and asked for his position and I gave my altitude. He said he was over the water tower. I was near the southern water tower and was getting a little concerned to the point where I essentially abandoned the pattern and focuses on finding him. I was worried he was near and above me.

Finally, my friend called him and he was 3-4 miles north of the field. When he first called he must have ben 5-7 miles north. There was no water tower out there. Was he trying to fool me or merely incompetent? But this time I was out of position anyway so I diverted and let him in first. After landing, he rolled to the far end of 18 and kindly stated that he would wait for me to land on 13. Thanks a lot. He could have taxiied the entire runway and I'd have been safe.

When we got back to Iowa City, we came in from way west. Wind was from the southeast. Traffic departed 25 then a spray plane arrived 12 with no radio call. About this time, the Cherokee from Washington was coming to Iowa City so I wanted on the ground. I landed 7.

It's all in a days work.

It points out that it is useful and polite to give accurate position calls. It is critical to expect NORDO traffic and always look for them. My main point on all of this is that we can all get together and blend in with not too much trouble.

Anyone who thinks he has priority over me because he is flying a standard pattern and I am not had better have the right of way regs down pat and be following them.

I have no problem with anyone who prefers to fly a standard pattern. I almost never do. There are many out there like me, so as was pointed out in an earlier post it's wise to expect non-standard ops even if one doesn't do them oneself.

[FlyingMonkey]

I did have to wait Saturday for a Blackhawk helicopter that was hovering 5ft above the taxiway I intended to use to clear out. He asked me if I was in his way and was very polite.

 

If I see any kind of traffic conflict developing, I will always wait/divert/extend/hold short/yield...I'm in no hurry.

[Ed Cesnalis]

Position calls:

• Cessna 5RomeoCharlie is directly above the WalMart. - I seldom know where such landmarks are.
  
• Mammoth Yosemite Traffic, Citation 5XrayZulu is 5 south, 10,000 - that puts them 3,000' underground and this is a common call. I've even heard 5 South, strait in 27
  

[Jim Meade]

You were too close for missiles. He'd have had to switch to guns.

[Jim Meade]

Yes, we heard the same kinds of calls yesterday. "XYZ is over West High on base for 12". Great. As good as, "ABC is over the IOW VOR inbound VOR A approach Iowa City.

[FlyingMonkey]

I usually call out that I'm over the gnarly tree over by the large rock.

[FastEddieB]

This topic is an old one.

 

I was taught to virtually always overfly a non-towered airport 500' above the pattern before descending into a tight, standard pattern. I went on to teach that to all my students. I still do it myself.

 

Why?

 

1) I like to look down at the windsock, which makes it easier for me to see.

 

2) I like to look down at the runway, verifying the runway numbers and looking for obstructions, debris or wildlife.

 

3) I can more easily spot traffic in the pattern from above.

 

4) I think one is less likely to get into the classic "low wing descending onto high wing" collision if two planes are simultaneously coming straight in.

 

5) The FAA recommends it.

 

If I had to guess, I'd say I come straight in or fly a modified pattern maybe 1 time in every 40 or 50 landings, and always with an articuable reason.

 

I understand there are airports where a standard pattern would be awkward, such as Charlie Tango's.

 

But I do not understand why the recommended procedure is a PITA. I think it makes me just a tad safer at the cost of an extra few minutes tacked onto the end of a flight.

 

But it IS non-regulatory, and it's a free country!

[Ed Cesnalis]

ME: 2CharlieTango 2 mile left base niner, Q400 on approach say position:

Q400: We have you on the fish finder

 

 

Once the faster higher aircraft announces they have me on the ff everyone becomes silent like they are directing traffic silently from above, I would rather know their position than to be comforted by the knowledge that they think they know mine.

[FlyingMonkey]

Eddie, I assume you mean 500' above the entire traffic pattern not just the light aircraft TPA? Many airports puts jets and other heavies 500' above light traffic. That would put you in direct conflict...

[Ed Cesnalis]

There's not a syllable in the FARs about 45-degree traffic pattern entries. Nor does the AIM require them. There exists, however, a small-but-vocal cadre of pilots — and even some FAA inspectors — who consider any other type of pattern entry (straight-in, crosswind, etc.) to be a felony. These

 

http://www.avweb.com/news/pelican/182100-1.html

[Ed Cesnalis]

Eddie, I assume you mean 500' above the entire traffic pattern not just the light aircraft TPA? Many airports puts jets and other heavies 500' above light traffic. That would put you in direct conflict...

http://forums.jetcareers.com/threads/overfly-at-500ft-or-1000ft.84392/

[FlyingMonkey]

I've heard some very experienced instructors say it's safer to enter the downwind at TPA, even crossing over the runway from the other side, than to do anything at any other altitude just because that's the altitude people are looking.

 

I'm not conflicting with anybody else's comments, just bringing up another school of thought I have heard.

[FastEddieB]

I stipulated there's nothing in the FAR's mandating a pattern be flown.

 

My practice has been to mentally add 1,000' to the field elevation for the pattern altitude, then 500' to that.

 

My home field is about 1,800' msl, so I shoot for a 2,800' pattern after overflying at least 3,300' above that.

 

I know there are differing pattern altitudes, but this has worked out for me. I have never really had an issue with heavier traffic at that altitude.

[FastEddieB]

Again, NON-regulatory, but the FAA does expect a pilot to be trained to this standard and demonstrate it on a checkride:

 

 

 

 

 

Traffic Patterns (ASEL and ASES)

 

 

References: FAA-H-8083-3, FAA-H-8083-25; AC 90-66; AIM.

 

 

 

Task C:

 

Exhibits satisfactory knowledge of the elements related to traffic patterns. This shall include procedures at airports with and without operating control towers, prevention of runway incursions, collision avoidance, wake turbulence avoidance, and wind shear.

Properly identifies and interprets airport/seaplane base runways, taxiway signs, markings, and lighting. Complies with proper traffic pattern procedures. Maintains proper spacing from other aircraft.

Corrects for wind drift to maintain the proper ground track. Maintains orientation with the runway/landing area in use. Maintains traffic pattern altitude, ±100 feet, and the appropriate airspeed, ±10 knots.

 

 

Bolded mine.

 

Here we have another case of, "Do it this way for the check ride because that's what the FAA wants, but once you're on your own do it any way you want". I think a better message is, "When able, do it the recommended way for the rest of your flying career, unless you have a good reason not to."

[Runtoeat]

Good points from everyone. It seems that there is one common thought though, which is to always be polite and communicate intentions. One need not be long winded but just a short "here's where I am and here's my intentions". Personally, if I happen to choose a straight in approach and I'm out 2 to 3 miles starting the approach, I will always give way to the other guy who's set up with a conventional pattern if he's on his downwind or it appears he's anywhere's in the pattern and I will announce I'm #2 to land. Just pull up some throttle or do some "S" turns. I figure I'll maybe eat up some extra flight time over my flying career but I'll be around to reflect on it.

[Ed Cesnalis]

How do you get from 'should be completed so as not to...' in the circular to ( your emphasis) 'YOU MUST NOT...' ?

[opticsguy]

The airports I practice at have lots of IFR training. There is always someone practicing an IFR approach, and they are required to announce their position also. It's courteous to let them complete their approach by extending the downwind if I have to. It's not clear to me who has priority in this situation.

 

I've announced a practice RNAV approach as an excuse to fly straight-in to several airports. Yes, I did have the plate up on my iFly so I could call out the FAF, etc.

[N89WD]

MrMorden, my flying experience in the scenario you set up was you were on a left downwind making calls, etc when the twin calls out he's on 7 mile final straight in runway 7. Just extent your downwind and make that call. Your # 2 behind the twin. Very common at my non towered airport, alternate for Jackson Hole. With all the big fast iron, they too will respect you as a piston. Obviously if your in the pattern the weather conditions are VFR. Their is a mutual respect. Don't be too wimpy on the radio, my most of all be safe you are PIC. You my want to try, no I recommend you do a dozen "short approaches" also. These are done from a down wind entry once abeam the numbers you chop power "slowly" and bank for the runway simulating an engine out. Great maneuver to learn and fun too!

[Doug G.]

If you look at 91.113 it is not clear if lower trumps slower. When is a plane on final? Just because you are straight in doesn't put you on final at 5 miles out, does it?