paul m Posted October 24, 2013 Report Share Posted October 24, 2013 A glimpse of my new plane. I'll try to post complete set of pictures after I pick it up but not sure they will be anywhere near as good as Adam's video of his former plane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WmInce Posted October 24, 2013 Report Share Posted October 24, 2013 A glimpse of my new plane. I'll try to post complete set of pictures after I pick it up but not sure they will be anywhere near as good as Adam's video of his former plane. Great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonoma Flight Center Posted October 24, 2013 Report Share Posted October 24, 2013 Way Cool Paul. I'm excited for you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted October 24, 2013 Report Share Posted October 24, 2013 Awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercity Posted October 25, 2013 Report Share Posted October 25, 2013 Looks great! Cant wait to see more! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted October 26, 2013 Report Share Posted October 26, 2013 I'm waiting on one of these myself! Tell me good sir, what Jubilee slot were you? (I'm 25 of 25) Last I heard I was shipping Oct for a Dec delivery but Oct is about to become November and there has been no call for my next check yet... :-) Thanks for the video plug but to be honest, I have no special skills. I use iMovie (standard issue on any Mac computer). A person can bang out movies on iMovie using all kinds of great templates and features in minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul m Posted October 26, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2013 Not sure the number but I'm guessing its early as I ordered it last December and its one that FDUSA I believe had already ordered for its pipeline. It's a February serial number. I'm guessing delivery pace will pick up now that they have worked out the kinks of the 912iS installation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted October 26, 2013 Report Share Posted October 26, 2013 Were there kinks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted October 26, 2013 Report Share Posted October 26, 2013 There are no kinks in the 912i….The engine itself and its installation are defect free. "Pride goeth before a fall". I sincerely hope that ROTAX developed and delivered a trouble-free engine, perfect in its very first iteration. But typically, new products DO have initial teething problems. Early adopters are often glorified "beta-testers". That may not prove to be the case here, but you should approach your engine assuming its absolutely NOT free of kinks nor defect-free. You should be a detective seeking out and reporting those kinks and defects, not glossing them over. We can play the "No True Scotsman fallacy" game, but would not a low-fuel-pressure warning going off in error ("I get Fuel Pressure warning regularly in the new CTLSi. Means nothing.") qualify as a defect, if not in the engine then in its installation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mocfly Posted October 26, 2013 Report Share Posted October 26, 2013 Paul, There will be a spot next to me on row 628 reserved for you at Air Venture 2014. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted October 26, 2013 Report Share Posted October 26, 2013 Objectivity isn't within grasp, we are still 'in love' with our new carbon ghost, wonder, marvel technologically leading airplane. It has a top speed of 147kts - really? It achieves 120kts cruise at 3.5 gal/hour - really? It has 20% more power - really? It dosn't have flapersons - really? Sight tubes can't be relied on - really? There are no kinks in the 912i - really? The header tank saved flight - really? 62kts and 15 degrees required for landing - really? 30 degree flap settings are a mess - really? Right rudder is needed to land a CT - really? I have to admit that when called on Ercoupe like controls in Cessnas resulting in LSA pilots being better stick and rudder pilots he actually admitted he might not be correct and that he had no experience. What about the countless other assertions? I doubt that no-one but the guys doing the 912iS installs know what the first kinks that were encountered are. Other kinks will take time to discover, much like we just upgraded the oil pressure sender on my 912ULS to a new less problematic design or heaven forbid like the new crankcase journal issues. When you can't admit to issues because your are blinded by your love for your superior design and those that instruct you, you are at a disadvantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted October 26, 2013 Report Share Posted October 26, 2013 There's an expression: "The bloom is off the rose." In my experience with cars and motorcycles and planes and whatever, it is often the most rabid supporters of a particular make or model that, when confronted with the real life warts of the product with which they are so enamored, become the most vocal critics. Most recently I've seen it with BMW motorcycles and Cirrus airplanes. I think we've seen it recently with a CT owner, who now instead of loving his plane has a crashed one and a lawsuit. I think Art P is almost famous for this kind of behavior, and has repeated it in a near carbon copy manner over at least a couple makes. Anyway, its an interesting process to watch play out. Who's going to bring the popcorn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted October 26, 2013 Report Share Posted October 26, 2013 Guys, I just realized how a positive thread about awaiting a new CT turned negative in a hurry. I apologize for my part and just want to congratulate paul m on his projected arrival. I'm sure he'll love it. And Paul, plug Copperhill, TN (1A3) into the flight planning software of your choice and c'mon down if you want to show your bird off - there are a handful of us clustered in this area and it would be a great excuse to get together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandpiper Posted October 26, 2013 Report Share Posted October 26, 2013 I'll see if I can fix that negative. Paul - even the partial picture shows this is a beautiful plane. I will be awaiting to hear about it when you start flying it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted October 26, 2013 Report Share Posted October 26, 2013 There are no kinks in the 912i. The issues the two CTLSi deliverd to KVGT last July were in cabling the ADSB, drilling holes for that module, one had pitot tube issues, that same one had cracks in the lower tail fin. The manufacturing process problems will no doubt appear in yours once delivered, maybe not in the same way. But the engine itself and its installation are defect free. I have 70 hours on mine now and it just keeps impressing each time up. Do you mean no kinks like the first batch of modules needing to be changed out, or the airbox redesign to get more torque? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted October 26, 2013 Report Share Posted October 26, 2013 There are no kinks in the 912i. Wow, the first completely perfect and defect free electromechanical device in the history of mankind. Alert the media. You slay me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mocfly Posted October 27, 2013 Report Share Posted October 27, 2013 Even NASA isn't that good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul m Posted October 27, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2013 Thanks everyone for the good wishes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted October 27, 2013 Report Share Posted October 27, 2013 There are no kinks in the 912i. Normally I just ignore you when you get on your high horse, but that's a really REALLY bad stance to take, and I cannot ignore it. Saying it's a great engine is one thing, but saying it's perfect? Even if it is, that attitude will make you complacent. Even though my little girl is perfect in every way to me, I always assume there's something wrong with her, and when I do my inspections, it's my job to find it and fix it. I've found cracks that others miss, and I've found problems with the avionics that people didn't know were problems. It's good to be proud of your airplane, but always be concerned for your well being. Don't assume it's a perfect engine, every manufacturer has had problems during manufacturing, and Rotax is no different. They've had an inclusion in one of their engines that resulted in the total loss of a CT north of my airport. Whether or not you want to hear me say this, with respect, CTLSi, please be careful how you see yourself or your airplane/engine. These are fantastic little planes, but you cannot rationally claim them to be perfect. I've seen enough people going through training at my school who started with "better than everyone and everything" attitudes, and one bent the nose gear of my plane porpoising on the runway and had the balls to say it's the plane's fault, and the other nearly ran it into the ground because he wouldn't listen to the instructor. It always starts with the high and mighty attitude. Pride is good, but stay humble and keep your eyes and ears open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted October 27, 2013 Report Share Posted October 27, 2013 The Austrian engine masters are just that, masters. I fly behind (actually, in front of) a ROTAX. Within limits, I trust it. With my life and the lives of my passengers, including my loved ones. But remember that the same Austrian mastery of which you speak also led to cracking crankshafts. And other defects which needed to be addressed over the years which I won't bother listing. Of course, now that you own one, you presume all these prior problems (which are not at all just limited to ROTAX) are a thing of the past. Let's hope - I want ROTAX to succeed in a big way and who knows, I could end up with an injected ROTAX someday. But the past is prolog, and the past tells us that all mechanical devices have faults. Including yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted October 27, 2013 Report Share Posted October 27, 2013 The Austrian engine masters are just that, masters... Their engineering is second to none... Lets compare. If I take a 912iS above 7,500' DA and I want to fly economically at 75% power or as close as I can get, can I do it? Answer is no, the engineering, inexplicably isn't there. It is understandable that I can't fly at maximum available power when below 75% with my 912ULS because its ability to lean is dependent on pressure differential and rubber diaphragms in the carbs. Its a dumb system and the need to protect against detonation and the need for lean cruising at altitude are in conflict. The 912iS obviously doesn't have this limitation because of the carbs instead its mixture is determined by an algorithm stored on a chip. The need to fly lean and at full throttle at say 11,500' is ignored and full rich remains your only option. Compare that to a Lycoming with fuel injection, either the pilot or the FADEC can optimize the mixture for cruising with all available power while leaned for economy. Clearly the 912iS is dumbed down technology in this respect forcing the pilot to waste fuel or run with a partially closed throttle. As fast eddie pointed out this is similar to running with a partially clogged air cleaner. There is nothing inherently wrong with this compromise, it saves money in R&D and perhaps weight but to sell it as engineering second to none is just plain wrong. Compared to Lycoming and Continental Rotax remains in the dark ages. Here's a description of the engineering used by Lycoming and TCM: Gone, of course, are traditional engine-driven magnetos, replaced by a high-energy spark coil for each cylinder. Variable timing will be controlled by a microprocessor for each cylinder. Fuel will be direct port injection through a new electronic pulsed injector Aerosance has developed to replace the continuous flow injectors that are standard equipment in aircraft engines. Aerosance's design is a closed loop system, meaning that it uses a series of sensors-manifold pressure, fuel pressure, cylinder head and exhaust gas temps, engine speed, knock detection, turbo boost pressure-to operate the engine to a set of fixed control laws burned into the FADEC's brain. Virtually all of the hardware for this system is clean-sheet stuff, including the coils, electronics, a master speed sensor that will occupy one of the magneto pads, electronic monitoring and annunciation. Still under development are an electronic prop governor and a waste-gate controller for turbocharged engines. Like the Porsche Mooney system, the Aerosance FADEC is all-electric, with no mechanical reversion. For redundancy, each microprocessor controls two cylinders and each coil generates spark for two cylinders. Aerosance envisions dual electrical power sources, with back-up provided by an optional engine-driven, self-exciting generator, another component under development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul m Posted November 5, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2013 I'm waiting on one of these myself! Tell me good sir, what Jubilee slot were you? (I'm 25 of 25) Last I heard I was shipping Oct for a Dec delivery but Oct is about to become November and there has been no call for my next check yet... :-) Adam, I'm #5 of 25. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted November 5, 2013 Report Share Posted November 5, 2013 ... you will fly the elegant little engineering marvel everywhere. And have a dozen admiring souls at each field you land at amazed at the ton of sophistication and technology fitted into such a small package. Taking the rhetoric up a notch? This dozen admiring and amazed souls at each field will instinctively know that Adam isn't flying a mistake like a CTSW or that it isn't simply a carbed LS they will realize its the version packed with a ton of sophisticated technology, I get it now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted November 5, 2013 Report Share Posted November 5, 2013 Hey CT: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted November 6, 2013 Report Share Posted November 6, 2013 Adam, I'm #5 of 25. Thanks Paul, It will be very curious to see how long mine takes. My order date was March 12th. I'm guessing I have 3 months (using your timeline of order to delivery) unless production picked up over the summer. I'm actually building a new house right now, so I'm in no rush to write big checks to Flight Design until after my house closing in early January. I'd love to see more pictures of how the plane turned out (interior treatments etc). There was to be a leather covered dash, and some other bells and whistles. Also very curious to know what your empty weight is! Enjoy and be safe! The first 25 hours are pretty critical to shake out any issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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