Runtoeat Posted January 25, 2017 Report Share Posted January 25, 2017 I used to put tape horizontal across the radiator. As Tom indicates, the oil radiator is centered behind the water coolant radiator and is not as wide as the water rad. I find that putting tape vertically at the center of the rad provides a airflow restriction that favors the oil cooler and this results in pretty equal water and oil temps. Addding / deleting some of the tape results in stabilizing the temps at or around the magic 212 F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted January 25, 2017 Report Share Posted January 25, 2017 The oil temperature does not need to reach 212 on the gauge to remove the water. Rotax says that the oil needs to reach 190° to remove the moisture. The 190° mark is measured at the point where the oil should be the coolest in the system, right after the oil cooler as it enters the engine, It will likely be above the 212° mark as the oil exits the engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckaroo Posted January 25, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2017 I'm going to remove the horizontal tape and try two vertical strips then three if needed. I understand the 190 boil off idea. After climbing this can be done. I'm wondering that doing airwork like yesterday can you run in the 130's for some time without harming things? We cut the flight short because I was uncomfortable at that low temp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckaroo Posted January 25, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2017 I forgot to mention yesterday my CFI guy took the controls and put us in a takeoff departure stall attitude. I told him not to carry a lot of power as warned on this forum about possible excessive break and roll. So he's carrying some power and antagonizing the buffet and stall when she decided she had enough and broke hard left. I've always taught spins but this break left go my attention. It was real swift! ???? I think he may of kicked a little left rudder in for drama. Prior to our flight I briefed home on no spins and minimal power on TO stalls. His conclusion on stalls in general was the CTSW behaves beautifully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted January 25, 2017 Report Share Posted January 25, 2017 I'm going to remove the horizontal tape and try two vertical strips then three if needed. I understand the 190 boil off idea. After climbing this can be done. I'm wondering that doing airwork like yesterday can you run in the 130's for some time without harming things? We cut the flight short because I was uncomfortable at that low temp. On oil temp in flight Rotax would like the temp to reach at least 190° at some point in the flight. If you can achieve that ,then temps in the 130's will not be an issue. Just watch that the temp doesn't get below the 122° mark. If it does the oil filter bypass can kick in and put contaminants back into the oil system. That black area that you talked about on the oil temp gauge will change to green as soon as your oil temp reaches the 190° mark, if it is not reached it will stay black. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckaroo Posted January 25, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2017 Ok that all makes sense! Between the high EGT's, low oil temps, new CFI, first flight, minus zero degrees and now my CFI's little vent pop out not staying closed it was a interesting flight. He finally got tired of holding the vent closed and opened the whole slider vent. That helped keep the cold out but really messed with the yaw!???? In cruise with feet off the rudders the ball was bouncing around like a ping pong. I examined the door and see it has a nut and screw head I'll tighten today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocRon Posted January 25, 2017 Report Share Posted January 25, 2017 Hello All, I lived in northern Minnesota for five years with my CT and flew down to -20F (but only once...) I found that taking a piece of white foam rubber and cutting it a bit larger than the air intake hole worked very well and I didn't have to fool with tape. Easy in--easy out. I cut several different sizes to match the requirements of several temperature ranges. It worked very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runtoeat Posted January 25, 2017 Report Share Posted January 25, 2017 DocRon. Good idea. I plug my rad inlet with foam when in the hangar to keep the heat in. I'll make a new foam plug with a cutout and try this. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runtoeat Posted January 25, 2017 Report Share Posted January 25, 2017 Every CT handles a little differently but in regards to the CTLS which I fly a lot and to my CTSW, I find that both of these planes have very little wing drop IF they are properly trimmed for level flight before the stall is initiated. On a power off stall, sometimes I can get a drop of the left wing slightly as the stall progresses but this is gentle and slight pressure on the right rudder brings it back to level. No drama here. On power on stalls, it is really hard to get a full stall where the nose will drop and the plane wants to head down. Both CT's just porpoise if the pressure applied to the stick to start the stall continues to be held. The instant this pressure is released and the stick is allowed to center, the rise and fall of the nose is stopped and the plane is flying level again. Any drop off of the wing here too is slight and easily controlled with a little rudder. The CT basically wants to keep flying and is very stable. I guess we somehow got some thread creep going here and have a dual topic thread on flying and engine cooling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandpiper Posted January 26, 2017 Report Share Posted January 26, 2017 I forgot to mention yesterday my CFI guy took the controls and put us in a takeoff departure stall attitude. I told him not to carry a lot of power as warned on this forum about possible excessive break and roll. So he's carrying some power and antagonizing the buffet and stall when she decided she had enough and broke hard left. I've always taught spins but this break left go my attention. It was real swift! I think he may of kicked a little left rudder in for drama. Prior to our flight I briefed home on no spins and minimal power on TO stalls. His conclusion on stalls in general was the CTSW behaves beautifully. Just about any plane can bite you in the butt if handled improperly. Start at 60 knots, bring the nose up while adding power all the way to full throttle. Keep the ball centered. Keep pulling until it breaks. Not as big an event as some make it out to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckaroo Posted January 26, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2017 Just about any plane can bite you in the butt if handled improperly. Start at 60 knots, bring the nose up while adding power all the way to full throttle. Keep the ball centered. Keep pulling until it breaks. Not as big an event as some make it out to be. I believe you would have to be hell bent on crashing or drunk to get yourself into a stall spin accident in the pattern with the CT! I also think that coordinating flight and true rudder work is essential in the CT line. My CTSW wing span is 28 feet my buddies Super Cub is 35 feet. He's about 3 feet longer sooo with a shorter fuselage, shorter wing and large rudder and lighter aircraft this equals a more critical rudder coordination! With this in mind a CT flyer will end up a better pilot in the end!???????????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandpiper Posted January 26, 2017 Report Share Posted January 26, 2017 You will certainly know what rudder pedals are for!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckaroo Posted January 26, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2017 You will certainly know what rudder pedals are for!! Going from LSA to general aviation rudder work will make you feel like a bus driver! ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted January 26, 2017 Report Share Posted January 26, 2017 Every CT handles a little differently but in regards to the CTLS which I fly a lot and to my CTSW, I find that both of these planes have very little wing drop IF they are properly trimmed for level flight before the stall is initiated. On a power off stall, sometimes I can get a drop of the left wing slightly as the stall progresses but this is gentle and slight pressure on the right rudder brings it back to level. No drama here. On power on stalls, it is really hard to get a full stall where the nose will drop and the plane wants to head down. Both CT's just porpoise if the pressure applied to the stick to start the stall continues to be held. The instant this pressure is released and the stick is allowed to center, the rise and fall of the nose is stopped and the plane is flying level again. Any drop off of the wing here too is slight and easily controlled with a little rudder. The CT basically wants to keep flying and is very stable. I agree with this. I think the level of drama is proportional to how quickly you exceed the critical angle of attack. If I slowly increase back pressure to bring the nose up into the stall, my airplane will either just find an attitude and stay there, or the nose will gently bob a bit. Either way, I'll show about 30-40kt indicated and will be in a ~800fpm descent. I'm pretty sure I could ride it like that right into the ground and have a reasonable chance of walking away. If I get close to stall speed and snatch the stick back aggressively, the critical angle of attack gets exceeding by a significant amount before the stall, and the nose will drop more sharply in a more "traditional" stall. It's still straight ahead and has no drama. The only time I was able to get a wing to drop (on purpose), was with a power on stall with the engine at 4000rpm, and doing the same thing. I slowed to about 60kt, and then just pitched up aggressively until the airplane stalled. The nose dropped sharply and the airplane rolled off to the right about 10-15°. I just used left rudder to level it out and then slowly pulled out of the nose low attitude. Not scary at all. These little airplanes are really remarkable in how docile and controllable they are at slow speeds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted January 26, 2017 Report Share Posted January 26, 2017 I believe you would have to be hell bent on crashing or drunk to get yourself into a stall spin accident in the pattern with the CT! I also think that coordinating flight and true rudder work is essential in the CT line. My CTSW wing span is 28 feet my buddies Super Cub is 35 feet. He's about 3 feet longer sooo with a shorter fuselage, shorter wing and large rudder and lighter aircraft this equals a more critical rudder coordination! With this in mind a CT flyer will end up a better pilot in the end! I could see it happening on the base-final turn, but you'd really have to be kind of asleep at the switch. The airplane is tail-happy enough that it would be pretty easy for the ball to get way out in the turn; if you got too slow there it could happen. But at those speeds, you can feel are you are getting really slow. It would be unusual to get going slow enough for the stall/spin and not realize what was happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbigs Posted January 26, 2017 Report Share Posted January 26, 2017 The CT can easily do a turning stall in slow flight as long as you keep the ball centered. I did this during my PPL checkride. Regular slow and high speed stalls are even easier, again keep the ball centered. Unlike a Cessna 172 you MUST NOT put a CT into a spin...it is placarded against it and will likely be damaged pulling out of one if the load factor is excessive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted January 26, 2017 Report Share Posted January 26, 2017 The CT can easily do a turning stall in slow flight as long as you keep the ball centered. I did this during my PPL checkride. Regular slow and high speed stalls are even easier, again keep the ball centered. Unlike a Cessna 172 you MUST NOT put a CT into a spin...it is placarded against it and will likely be damaged pulling out of one if the load factor is excessive. The fact that the CT has a placard against spins has to do with the ASTM certification standards rather than its ability to spin. Any airplane can be damaged by excessive load factor, however normal spin recovery does not lead to excessive load factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted January 27, 2017 Report Share Posted January 27, 2017 One of the few parachute pulls in a CT was at the factory when they spun it and couldn't recover. I personally would stay as far away as possible. They serve no purpose going from point "A" to "B". Why test fate to see if it's your turn. to lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckaroo Posted January 27, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2017 The recovery procedure from a spin requires using rudder to stop the rotation, then elevator to reduce angle of attack to stop the stall, then pulling out of the dive without exceeding the maximum permitted airspeed (VNE) or maximum G loading. The maximum G loading for a light airplane in the normal category is usually 3.8 G. For a light airplane in the acrobatic category it is usually at least 6 G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted January 27, 2017 Report Share Posted January 27, 2017 One of the few parachute pulls in a CT was at the factory when they spun it and couldn't recover. I personally would stay as far away as possible. They serve no purpose going from point "A" to "B". Why test fate to see if it's your turn. to lose. Some of us use these airplanes to do more than going from point A to B. How many chute pulls has the factory had? The only one I remember hearing about was a control system malfunction while testing the trim system. What I remember from back in 2008 was that the airplane had been spin tested with no issues. I ask if it would be possible to get approval to do spins for training purposes. I was told, why would we want to do that and open ourselves to that liability. Cessna had chute pulls due to spin issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckaroo Posted January 27, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2017 I'd be real interested in a study of spins by the manufacturer in the Ct line! All that rudder and aileron short cg arm and low weight I'd be surprised if these are prone to a flat spin! I won't try to test this but I'll bet the restriction is just to simplify the approval process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted January 27, 2017 Report Share Posted January 27, 2017 The fact that the CT has a placard against spins has to do with the ASTM certification standards rather than its ability to spin. Any airplane can be damaged by excessive load factor, however normal spin recovery does not lead to excessive load factor. I know an instructor who spun a CTSW. He said recovery was completely conventional, but it did pick up speed at the bottom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted January 27, 2017 Report Share Posted January 27, 2017 One of the few parachute pulls in a CT was at the factory when they spun it and couldn't recover. I personally would stay as far away as possible. They serve no purpose going from point "A" to "B". Why test fate to see if it's your turn. to lose. Totally agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted January 27, 2017 Report Share Posted January 27, 2017 One of the few parachute pulls in a CT was at the factory when they spun it and couldn't recover. I personally would stay as far away as possible. They serve no purpose going from point "A" to "B". Why test fate to see if it's your turn. to lose. Roger, Just to verify that my memory is what I thought it was I looked through the BRS saves list and found the save 100 was a Flight Design test pilot. The link on the BRS site to the PDF is no longer any good, so I did a Google search. Here is what I found, http://www.ultralightnews.ca/brs/saves/100.htm . This was not a spin accident. I found no other evidence of a factory chute pull for any other issues. Also worthy of note is the fact that this accident happened very early in the design of the CT series airplane in 1997. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbigs Posted January 27, 2017 Report Share Posted January 27, 2017 The fact that the CT has a placard against spins has to do with the ASTM certification standards rather than its ability to spin. Any airplane can be damaged by excessive load factor, however normal spin recovery does not lead to excessive load factor. The 'normal' class CT POH and the placarding in the aircraft say no intentional (or inadvertent) spins. Pulling out of at the bottom of spin presents the danger of excessive loads that can either damage the plane or worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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