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Montana weather is improving and got my second flight today!


Buckaroo

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I had an outstanding 1.3 hour second flight on my newely bought 07 CTSW. Finally got in 10 take offs and landings with my instructor today. It was the blind leading the blind but everything went well. We transitioned into 30 and 40 degree flap work and did some forward slips.

 

I received the plane in November and finally got her out. I am very happy with the flight today and had a ball.

 

I want to thank all the forum members who took time to answer many of my questions preparing for this day. I feel like I've been well groomed over the months with all the advice I received here.

 

Sometimes it's best to slow down and be patient like Montana's weather forced me to do. I feel like a better CTSW driver because of the study and research delay! ????????????

 

Thanks all!

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Thanks! Some observations: she makes you humble real fast! The plane is very sensitive in all flight controls. I had the ball slamming around like a jitter bug. My flight instructor got two try's at landings and he popped her into the air after a good bounce and me the student, but aircraft owner, yelled "go around" he did. That was awkward as he's the instructor!

 

On forward slips the instructor in the right seat did the first one. He told me he pinned his right foot all the way in and used aileron as needed. At 75 mph and slipping hard left the feeling compared to a 172 was interesting. I prayed that at 75 to 80 with 15 degrees of flaps she would not decide to go on her back. I knew she wouldn't but I wish we'd done it on his side as low rushing towards the turf.

 

Full flap landings were a little steeper requiring some power but very straight forward.

 

Great little airplane I'm going to get good at and humble my high hour Air Force pilot friends! ????????????

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Watch out for the 40 degree flaps......... get too slow and it will drop like a rock and you'll prang it hard. Just watch your speed........

Point noted! I've never flown a plane that reacts differently with slight airspeed variations. I think it's a light sport phenomenon more than anything. Also tho our planes are so clean and aerodynamic speed changes everything. My friends RANS 7 is a total different feeling to me.

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Buckaroo, there's those who use full flaps and those who stay away from full flaps for landing.  I was trained to use full flaps so this is my SOP.  As CT2kflyer says though, one needs to pay attention to speed to prevent stalls while close to the ground. Since full flap stall is around 40kts, I don't find this to be a problem but it does take practice with someone familiar with the 's slow speed flight characteristics of a CT.  Sounds like you might be training your CFI! ;)

 

The advantage of using full flaps for me is the tremendous view one has of the runway and once on the ground, the high drag and low speed reduces the tendency of the CT to go back into the air if a bounce is produced.  Of course, full flaps also are needed to do short landings on marginal length runways.  It goes without saying that it is beneficial to explore landing and taking off at all other flap settings to understand what might be best for you.  I try to use all flap settings to understand how my CT responds.  Landing with -6 flaps is a possibility should the flaps stop working during a flight.  It is best to know how to properly land your CT configured to this condition.  The CT is a great airplane with a lot of capabilities that are fun to explore.

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Buckaroo, there's those who use full flaps and those who stay away from full flaps for landing. I was trained to use full flaps so this is my SOP. As CT2kflyer says though, one needs to pay attention to speed to prevent stalls while close to the ground. Since full flap stall is around 40kts, I don't find this to be a problem but it does take practice with someone familiar with the 's slow speed flight characteristics of a CT. Sounds like you might be training your CFI! ;)

 

The advantage of using full flaps for me is the tremendous view one has of the runway and once on the ground, the high drag and low speed reduces the tendency of the CT to go back into the air if a bounce is produced. Of course, full flaps also are needed to do short landings on marginal length runways. It goes without saying that it is beneficial to explore landing and taking off at all other flap settings to understand what might be best for you. I try to use all flap settings to understand how my CT responds. Landing with -6 flaps is a possibility should the flaps stop working during a flight. It is best to know how to properly land your CT configured to this condition. The CT is a great airplane with a lot of capabilities that are fun to explore.

Yup it's the blind leading the blind around here in remote Montana! Yesterday my hand on the throttle on upwind to downwind my finger resting on the flap switch accidentally pushed to flap to 30. We felt nothing and turning base my instructor points to the flap light and asked me if I switched which was a surprise to me. I guess you could fly the pattern with 30 degrees in?

 

Another thing I'll be working on is the rudder on takeoff. I notice from torque needing lots of right rudder especially when she lifts off. Then on downwind needing left rudder on power reduction. I noticed powering back to about 2900 rpm abeam the numbers and slowing to 70 seemed to provide the best character for base to final with 15 flap. I seem to feel more comfortable carrying a little power in.

 

Hey it's all good!????

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Thanks! Some observations: she makes you humble real fast! The plane is very sensitive in all flight controls. I had the ball slamming around like a jitter bug. My flight instructor got two try's at landings and he popped her into the air after a good bounce and me the student, but aircraft owner, yelled "go around" he did. That was awkward as he's the instructor!

 

On forward slips the instructor in the right seat did the first one. He told me he pinned his right foot all the way in and used aileron as needed. At 75 mph and slipping hard left the feeling compared to a 172 was interesting. I prayed that at 75 to 80 with 15 degrees of flaps she would not decide to go on her back. I knew she wouldn't but I wish we'd done it on his side as low rushing towards the turf.

 

Full flap landings were a little steeper requiring some power but very straight forward.

 

Great little airplane I'm going to get good at and humble my high hour Air Force pilot friends!

 

Yeah, he's the instructor, but he's flying around in your expensive airplane!  :)

 

That's exactly how I do slips.  Pin the right foot to the floor and move the stick around as needed.  You'll have to constantly adjust the pitch as well as the ailerons, the CT likes to pick up speed in a slipped descent; I often have to lift the nose higher than I would think is right to stay on speed.  If you are talking about 75-80 knots, you have no worries, I have done full deflection slips at 50kt in all landing flap settings with no issues at all.  

 

When cross-controlled like that the lower wing has to come over the top, which would give you time to ease off the controls and drop the nose.  Skidding into a spin is more dangerous because the raised wing is the one that wants to come over, which can happen in an instant.

 

The CT is a rudder airplane, and short-coupled.  In gusty conditions, keeping the ball "more or less" centered is about the best you can hope for.  But you definitely need to use rudder whenever deflecting ailerons, or the ball will jump out.  Luckily we have a big rudder and it only takes small foot pressure to compensate in a turn.  Once you have a few hours in the airplane I think you'll find that characteristic is fun and lends some of the sporty character to the airplane.  It's more like a nimble sports car than a flying minivan.  :D

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Another thing I'll be working on is the rudder on takeoff. I notice from torque needing lots of right rudder especially when she lifts off. Then on downwind needing left rudder on power reduction. I noticed powering back to about 2900 rpm abeam the numbers and slowing to 70 seemed to provide the best character for base to final with 15 flap. I seem to feel more comfortable carrying a little power in.

 

It sounds like your speeds might be a little fast.  I go to idle abeam the numbers, and then aim for 57kt.  That means a close in base and a short final, but if you lose the engine you should still make the runway or at least the airport property.  On final I then slow to 52-55kt and 15° flaps, or 50-52kt at 30° flaps if the winds are calm.  

 

When first learning, I'd use 15° flaps for most landings unless the winds are low (under 8kt).  Above that the higher flap settings become a challenge; the airplane gets kicked around more by gusts and roll control is reduced by the drooped flaperons.  You can land the CT in almost any conditions with 15° flaps.  I have done it in 20kt+ winds, I saw Bill Ince do a great landing in 24G32 winds at 15° flaps in Texas (I chickened out and landed at 0°).  Especially in any significant crosswinds, I'd stick to 15° until you are very comfy there.  15° is "easy mode".  

 

30° flaps are harder, but not really bad, you just have to get used to the lower nose attitude and reduced roll effectiveness.  40° feels very similar to 30°, BUT in my opinion it's a lot harder.  I do occasional landings at 40°, but honestly I see the primary use of that setting as "I need to stuff this airplane into that really short field because it's an emergency."  Others disagree, but the speed reduction on landing (1-2kt) doesn't warrant the amount of increased difficulty and chance of effing it up.  IMO, YMMV, and all that jazz.  

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It sounds like your speeds might be a little fast. I go to idle abeam the numbers, and then aim for 57kt. That means a close in base and a short final, but if you lose the engine you should still make the runway or at least the airport property. On final I then slow to 52-55kt and 15° flaps, or 50-52kt at 30° flaps if the winds are calm.

 

When first learning, I'd use 15° flaps for most landings unless the winds are low (under 8kt). Above that the higher flap settings become a challenge; the airplane gets kicked around more by gusts and roll control is reduced by the drooped flaperons. You can land the CT in almost any conditions with 15° flaps. I have done it in 20kt+ winds, I saw Bill Ince do a great landing in 24G32 winds at 15° flaps in Texas (I chickened out and landed at 0°). Especially in any significant crosswinds, I'd stick to 15° until you are very comfy there. 15° is "easy mode".

 

30° flaps are harder, but not really bad, you just have to get used to the lower nose attitude and reduced roll effectiveness. 40° feels very similar to 30°, BUT in my opinion it's a lot harder. I do occasional landings at 40°, but honestly I see the primary use of that setting as "I need to stuff this airplane into that really short field because it's an emergency." Others disagree, but the speed reduction on landing (1-2kt) doesn't warrant the amount of increased difficulty and chance of effing it up. IMO, YMMV, and all that jazz.

Great posts FlyingMonkey! I agree I think I'm hanging onto airspeed as a safety blanket. Most my moves are high and hot and wanting to carry power. I think this is why I'm flying ground effect so long. My landings are greasers but time and distance to touch down are agonizingly long. My landings when the plane touches the stick is usually all the way back.

 

I think as I get confident with things my speeds will come down.

 

Thanks again for the tips!

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It sounds like your speeds might be a little fast.  I go to idle abeam the numbers, and then aim for 57kt.  That means a close in base and a short final, but if you lose the engine you should still make the runway or at least the airport property.  On final I then slow to 52-55kt and 15° flaps, or 50-52kt at 30° flaps if the winds are calm. 

 

So one thing I still sometimes struggle with is when to turn to base.  Using the 45 degree rule of thumb doesn't seem to work for me, at least not when using 15 deg flaps instead of 30 or 40; I'm usually high on final.  Also, what if TPA is 800' instead of 1000'?  I heard that one alternate rule of thumb that I tend to use is turn base after losing 200' for 1000' TPA and losing 100' for 800' TPA; this seems to work better for me, since it's independent of flap.  What do you guys use?

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Honestly, I do it mostly by feel.  Sometimes I'm low and have to add a little power, other times I'm a bit high and need to slip to lose some altitude.  But mostly it works out well.  I try to be high rather than low.  You can always slip to lose altitude, but if you have engine trouble you might not always be able to add power.  Try to imagine your airplane having to glide to the runway, and turn base where you would need to if gliding to the runway, with a little cushion.  Maybe think of the piano keys past the numbers as your touchdown point.

 

Remember that most of those "rules of thumb" are for heavier airplanes with more inertia, and don't always work for us.  When I was learning, my CFI asked once why I was consistently low in my approaches and keeping power in so long.  I told him I was following the PAPI lights.  He said "those don't work for LSA, you need to approach higher and come in steeper."  It was good advice. 

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My CFi introduced me to a practice which I like.  This is to not land but just set up for landing with whatever flap you like and work with pitch and power to hold the 50 kts +- airspeed (15 flaps) or 45 kts +- airspeed (40 flaps) and keep about 10' off the runway.  Do some of these and after doing a few if you find that you're really stabilized with the speed and height, reduce power and hold the nose wheel off the runway and land.  Need to have a fairly long runway that's hopefully not busy and play with this for a while.  The hardest thing for me still, after a few thousand landings, is to keep the idea in my head that pitch controls speed and power controls altitude.  I will find myself sometimes pulling back on the stick if I'm sinking too fast on the final part of my landing during the final low speed before touchdown.  What I should be doing is put in a little power to slow the sink.  The practice of not landing but just controlling my speed and height off the runway resets my thought process in regards to using pitch and power properly when landing.  There are some forum members who do only power off landings with a full stall for the final touchdown and I also practice these but my standard landing is done with little judicious squirts of power to control my sink if I haven't timed things exactly right.  I am probably setting myself up for flaming by some here but this works for me.

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My CFi introduced me to a practice which I like.  This is to not land but just set up for landing with whatever flap you like and work with pitch and power to hold the 50 kts +- airspeed (15 flaps) or 45 kts +- airspeed (40 flaps) and keep about 10' off the runway.  Do some of these and after doing a few if you find that you're really stabilized with the speed and height, reduce power and hold the nose wheel off the runway and land.  Need to have a fairly long runway that's hopefully not busy and play with this for a while.  The hardest thing for me still, after a few thousand landings, is to keep the idea in my head that pitch controls speed and power controls altitude.  I will find myself sometimes pulling back on the stick if I'm sinking too fast on the final part of my landing during the final low speed before touchdown.  What I should be doing is put in a little power to slow the sink.  The practice of not landing but just controlling my speed and height off the runway resets my thought process in regards to using pitch and power properly when landing.  There are some forum members who do only power off landings with a full stall for the final touchdown and I also practice these but my standard landing is done with little judicious squirts of power to control my sink if I haven't timed things exactly right.  I am probably setting myself up for flaming by some here but this works for me.

I like it.

Thanks for the tips.

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It sounds like your speeds might be a little fast. I go to idle abeam the numbers, and then aim for 57kt. That means a close in base and a short final, but if you lose the engine you should still make the runway or at least the airport property. On final I then slow to 52-55kt and 15° flaps, or 50-52kt at 30° flaps if the winds are calm.

 

When first learning, I'd use 15° flaps for most landings unless the winds are low (under 8kt). Above that the higher flap settings become a challenge; the airplane gets kicked around more by gusts and roll control is reduced by the drooped flaperons. You can land the CT in almost any conditions with 15° flaps. I have done it in 20kt+ winds, . . . . . . Especially in any significant crosswinds, I'd stick to 15° until you are very comfy there. 15° is "easy mode".

 

30° flaps are harder, but not really bad, you just have to get used to the lower nose attitude and reduced roll effectiveness. 40° feels very similar to 30°, BUT in my opinion it's a lot harder. I do occasional landings at 40°, but honestly I see the primary use of that setting as "I need to stuff this airplane into that really short field because it's an emergency." Others disagree, but the speed reduction on landing (1-2kt) doesn't warrant the amount of increased difficulty and chance of effing it up. IMO, YMMV, and all that jazz.

 

All good stuff, Andy.

Thanks for the tips.

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I was thinking that running at idle or out of the green was hard on the drive. That's why on downwind I'd reduce to 2500 or so and going to idle on final. So abeam the numbers and pulling power is not hard on anything correct?

 

There is a yellow arc on the tach starting at 1600rpm.  below that can cause some gearbox chatter that will cause additional wear on the gearbox.  Most folks have their idle set higher than 1600rpm anyway.  I set mine to right at 1600-1700rpm, but most are 1800rpm or so.  This is only something to worry about while taxiing, in the air the wind through the prop will keep the rpm at 2000rpm+, even at idle throttle.

 

Be aware that Roger Lee has said that it's also bad to keep the engine much below 5000rpm for extended periods.  I often find myself flying with a friend in a slower airplane, and have to be about 4000rpm at 0° flaps to keep pace with him (about 70-75kt).  It doesn't seem to cause any problems, but I recognize I may be causing some wear that can shorten the life of engine components.  

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There is a yellow arc on the tach starting at 1600rpm. below that can cause some gearbox chatter that will cause additional wear on the gearbox. Most folks have their idle set higher than 1600rpm anyway. I set mine to right at 1600-1700rpm, but most are 1800rpm or so. This is only something to worry about while taxiing, in the air the wind through the prop will keep the rpm at 2000rpm+, even at idle throttle.

 

Be aware that Roger Lee has said that it's also bad to keep the engine much below 5000rpm for extended periods. I often find myself flying with a friend in a slower airplane, and have to be about 4000rpm at 0° flaps to keep pace with him (about 70-75kt). It doesn't seem to cause any problems, but I recognize I may be causing some wear that can shorten the life of engine components.

I'll have to take note where idle is while in flight. Yes taxing I keep it at the low green and find she runs pretty fast requiring some brake stabs here and there.

 

I've got two flights in now and will get signed off after one more next week. It's really going to be fun running with my Rans 7, C-172 buddy and Rv6 friend. These guys are all snow birds coming back from Arizona soon. The Rv 6 has a 175 knot cruise.????

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At WOT, the Rans7 will be slower and 172 will find it hard to keep up with you.  Say good-by to the RV6.  It will walk away from you.  Of course, you'll end up passing them after they stop for fuel and you still have a lot of your original 34 gallons of fuel remaining.  :-)  Disclaimer:  This is predicated on  your CT's prop being pitched to achieve 5650 engine rpm at WOT at altitude normally flown.

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