Roger Lee Posted May 2, 2017 Report Share Posted May 2, 2017 This is just a debate so please do not get upset. First I don't believe in Kits because they usually fall short and are not all inclusive. I would tell everyone to make up their own list and call it in to whomever. If you follow your list it may be wrong for other aircraft. Even between the CTSW and the CTLS. "The only service center that offers a hose kit is CPS that I am aware of, and the kit is based on your recommendations." Other Service Centers do offer hose change packages. CPS didn't get my info or permission to list me. They took that upon themselves and I have ask them twice to remove it. I did some extensive research years ago at the first set of hose changes. Gates Barricade hose meets and exceeds the DIN spec given you our hose, but so does others. DIN standards is just German metric standards. Many US parts meet and exceed DIN standards, but won't list DIN because that's a German number system. DIN is like our ISO standards. DIN: DIN stands for "Deutsches Institut für Normung", meaning "German institute for standardisation". DIN standards that begin with "DIN V" ("Vornorm", meaning "pre-issue") are the result of standardization work, but because of certain reservations on the content or because of the divergent compared to a standard installation procedure of DIN, they are not yet published standards. Read this: https://rodavigo.net/catalogos/GATES/Productos%20para%20motores%20industriales/GATES%2005%20Est%C3%A1ndares%20en%20la%20manguera.pdf "Can you show me in writing where it says that the rubber replacement is just firewall forward?" Yes it's only in the Rotax manual not in the FD manual and this question is ask and answered in most Rotax classes. Rotax claims no liability or legal responsibility for anything, but the engine. "Is my list expanded beyond the basic hose kit, well yes it is." My point. Nothing wrong with your list. Replace it all. It just goes beyond what Rotax wants as a rubber parts replacement. If you include all this for everyone they will all think this is what is meant by Rotax as a rubber parts replacement. What should be in print is just what is included in the rubber parts replacement. Then I would add that you go beyond that with an extended list that you have set up for your customers. There needs to be a division so to speak so everyone understands where the rubber replacement starts and stops and then what was added as extra extended maint. parts. I look at the list and see that most of that should have been done all along the way and if all that has to be done now then items may have been missed before or replaced possibly unnecessarily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckaroo Posted May 2, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 2, 2017 It would be smart for Rotax repair stations to offer maybe three rubber change out packages. The basic as required by Rotax then a advanced package and the "da works" package. Set prices and list those parts to be changed out. For me being somewhat remote I'd be choosing the works. It seems to me Rotax and light sport is in its infancy still and has many ways to mature. The potential is huge! I can vision a company coming to the forefront and developing a aircraft with total marketing like Harley Davidson did in the 80's. It's going to happen you watch!???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted May 2, 2017 Report Share Posted May 2, 2017 Kits don't usually work well for the Rotax Service Centers. Too many types of aircraft. Which do you choose to stock and then it usually isn't cost effective. There are all kinds of SLSA, ELSA, Amature built, trikes motorgliders, ect... No one can have all those kits. Then you have owners and or mechanics that do different things during rubber parts change. Many do things that make you scratch your head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted May 2, 2017 Report Share Posted May 2, 2017 One thing I decided to do on the rubber change, which I'm also preparing for, is to do the carb flanges on condition. From all appearances mine are fine. The flanges are $105 each, plus the cost of gaskets. They are easily removed and inspected, and if they are worn or cracked, I will replace; if not, right back on they will go until I inspect them again at the next condition inspection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted May 2, 2017 Report Share Posted May 2, 2017 The service centers don' really have kits. What they have is a list of individual parts to order. The problem is that each design is a little different. About the only things that are the same is carb sockets, diaphragms, and maybe the 17mm coolant hose. Everything else is determined by the aircraft installation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted May 2, 2017 Report Share Posted May 2, 2017 One thing I decided to do on the rubber change, which I'm also preparing for, is to do the carb flanges on condition. From all appearances mine are fine. The flanges are $105 each, plus the cost of gaskets. They are easily removed and inspected, and if they are worn or cracked, I will replace; if not, right back on they will go until I inspect them again at the next condition inspection. Andy, personally I think it is a bad idea. Out of all the rubber parts we replace the carb flanges are the only place where I have seen a actual failure. I had one that visually looked fine, but it had separated from the metal plate. I know of another that cracked that put an aircraft on the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted May 2, 2017 Report Share Posted May 2, 2017 Roger, I concede. The Gates hose meets the DIN specification. That still doesn't change the fact that 5/16" id is to large for some of the fittings in the CT. In my opinion the hose should provide enough grip on a fitting that when installed in the hose it will not fall out under its own weight. In other words the hose and fitting should make the seal and the clamp is only holding things in place. The clamp should not be creating the seal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted May 2, 2017 Report Share Posted May 2, 2017 Hi Tom, I always respect your thoughts, ideas and maint. performed. Nothing to concede to. We are just trading ideas, thoughts and different experiences. No big shake. Sometimes there are different solutions and parts to the same task. There is nothing wrong with your list. I think it's up to us mechanics that do this sort of thing all the time to to try and be more clear on maint., parts and explanations of minimum and maximum work expected during any procedure. I was just trying to outline an expectation of a SIMPLE STRAIGHT FORWARD hose change. If owners and mechanics want to add more then no big shake, but at least an unknowledgable owner will have some point of reference of what to expect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckaroo Posted May 2, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 2, 2017 The service centers don' really have kits. What they have is a list of individual parts to order. The problem is that each design is a little different. About the only things that are the same is carb sockets, diaphragms, and maybe the 17mm coolant hose. Everything else is determined by the aircraft installation. Ok makes sense! I still think we are witnessing the beginning of something that's going to get real big. LSA is going to takeoff!???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WmInce Posted May 2, 2017 Report Share Posted May 2, 2017 . . . we are witnessing the beginning of something that's going to get real big. LSA is going to takeoff! Actually, LSA has been around quite a while now. The Rotax 912 is a well proven aviation engine with a long history. Relatively, I think both are well into the mature stage. It's just that guys like you, me and others were late getting to the party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted May 2, 2017 Report Share Posted May 2, 2017 Andy, personally I think it is a bad idea. Out of all the rubber parts we replace the carb flanges are the only place where I have seen a actual failure. I had one that visually looked fine, but it had separated from the metal plate. I know of another that cracked that put an aircraft on the ground. If I remove the flange entirely for careful inspection, would I not see these problems developing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckaroo Posted May 2, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 2, 2017 Actually, LSA has been around quite a while now. The Rotax 912 is a well proven aviation engine with a long history. Relatively, I think both are well into the mature stage. It's just that guys like you, me and others were late getting to the party. I think the party's going to get bigger. I watch YouTube every night and the new LSA aircraft are getting real high tech and functional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WmInce Posted May 2, 2017 Report Share Posted May 2, 2017 I think the party's going to get bigger. I watch YouTube every night and the new LSA aircraft are getting real high tech and functional. Can we safely say, "you've got the bug?" For some of us, LSA fits the mission very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted May 2, 2017 Report Share Posted May 2, 2017 If I remove the flange entirely for careful inspection, would I not see these problems developing? Maybe. How often are you going to remove and inspect? As the part ages it will lose plasticizers making it more susceptible to cracking. So as it gets older the time between inspections will need to increase, because the chance of a failure will go up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted May 2, 2017 Report Share Posted May 2, 2017 Maybe. How often are you going to remove and inspect? As the part ages it will lose plasticizers making it more susceptible to cracking. So as it gets older the time between inspections will need to increase, because the chance of a failure will go up. I agree with that. My original plan was to remove and inspect this year during the hose change, and if they look good to replace at the next condition inspection, to spread the expense. In fact, I'm doing the rubber change a year early anyway because my engine mount isolators are shot and the engine has to come off anyway, so in this particular case I don't think I'm adding any additional risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckaroo Posted May 2, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 2, 2017 Can we safely say, "you've got the bug?" For some of us, LSA fits the mission very well. I'm having more fun with this airplane than my boat and Harley put together!???? I just wish I had good service close by! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted May 2, 2017 Report Share Posted May 2, 2017 I'm having more fun with this airplane than my boat and Harley put together! I just wish I had good service close by! Psst...E-LSA! Seriously though, if you are at all mechanically inclined, in your remote location you are in the perfect situation to convert your CTSW to E-LSA status. You are just not likely to find good, rated technicians familiar with the CTSW airframe or Rotax engines within a reasonable radius. I do understand the resale concerns some have. But as you say, it's so much fun why would you ever sell it? Not trying to tell you what to do or pressure you, just pointing out you at least have that as a last resort option. Do you have anybody now that you can use? What would you do now if you, for example, needed the carbs balanced? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckaroo Posted May 2, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 2, 2017 Psst...E-LSA! Seriously though, if you are at all mechanically inclined, in your remote location you are in the perfect situation to convert your CTSW to E-LSA status. You are just not likely to find good, rated technicians familiar with the CTSW airframe or Rotax engines within a reasonable radius. I do understand the resale concerns some have. But as you say, it's so much fun why would you ever sell it? Not trying to tell you what to do or pressure you, just pointing out you at least have that as a last resort option. Do you have anybody now that you can use? What would you do now if you, for example, needed the carbs balanced? What I don't want to do is get above my pay grade on servicing this rig. I'm concerned that I'll cut corners or my not have the knowledge to safely maintain the plane and motor. A yearly visit to an expert is in my plans. I did my oil and filter and can do the carb balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug G. Posted May 3, 2017 Report Share Posted May 3, 2017 Take an LSRM-A course and do your own work. There are some limitations - you can't do things that are not approved by the manufacturer, but maintenance and most upgrades. I do very much understand the freedom that comes with E-LSA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckaroo Posted May 3, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 3, 2017 Take an LSRM-A course and do your own work. There are some limitations - you can't do things that are not approved by the manufacturer, but maintenance and most upgrades. I do very much understand the freedom that comes with E-LSA. Yes I think I'll end up going this route! I'm still studying things so I don't end up a chump loser making the wrong decision! ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ls6pilot Posted June 5, 2017 Report Share Posted June 5, 2017 On 4/11/2017 at 5:00 PM, Runtoeat said: Make sure the front strut is taken apart and greased. If the strut still has the spring and the pucks haven't been installed, order the pucks before you go and have these ready to install. If the pucks have been installed already, they can compress and sag over time. You may need one or two new ones, or need to replace all if they are really deteriorated, to bring the strut back to full extension. It's really important to keep the internal tubes, bronze bushings, sliding pin and pucks well greased. And you thought I was kidding when I said I love to spend other people's money! I am getting ready to install new pucks. Think the spring is still in there. What washers do i need to go in between the pucks? Any particular grease? Thanks Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted June 6, 2017 Report Share Posted June 6, 2017 The "pucks" are 6 red polyurethane front suspension dampeners. The have a special length, width and dura hardness. If you still have the spring the front end will bounce up and down quite a ways like it has a spring in it. If it is the dampeners then it should be pretty firm and very little up & down movement. If you need these dampeners and don't already have them you'll have to wait until I get back home July 23rd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runtoeat Posted June 6, 2017 Report Share Posted June 6, 2017 4 hours ago, ls6pilot said: I am getting ready to install new pucks. Think the spring is still in there. What washers do i need to go in between the pucks? Any particular grease? Thanks Rich Rich, refer to CTLS Maintenance Manual, page 3-25, for the typical stack up of urethane pucks and the washers that separate these pucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted June 6, 2017 Report Share Posted June 6, 2017 If you still have the spring you will need the kit to install the urethane nose gear suspension. IIRC besides the pucks and washers there is also a special aluminum piece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ls6pilot Posted June 6, 2017 Report Share Posted June 6, 2017 I got the pucks from Roger and I can get some washers. What is the aluminum piece? Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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