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I love my CTSW even more after a long XC!


CTSW Bob

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Just got back a week or so ago from a nice XC with my son in my 2007 CTSW.  We flew from KDNN to KFYM (Fayetteville, AR) with a stop for bladders and leg stretching in Covington, TN (M04).  Until this trip, my longest XC was about a 2 hour and 20 minute flight to the beach and back with my wife.  I just wanted to report to anyone trying to learn more about these, that the Flight Designs are very capable planes.

 

Since my son is a good 230 pounds of all muscle, weight was going to be the number one factor in my planning.  I am light, so I still opted for 24 gallons of fuel, even though each leg would burn no more than 12 gallons.  This gave me a more than comfortable 2+ hours of reserve fuel.  Being guys, we packed light and brought our own lunches for the mid-way stop.

 

On the way there, it was get up to cruising altitude, trim the plane, and set the GPS driven autopilot.  Coming from a 182P, but with only a crappy antique "wing-leveler," the advancements in these Flight Designs are so far ahead of the dinosaur Cessnas it's not even funny.  The safety of full-digital engine monitoring and situational awareness of the primary display, along with my Garmin Aera 660 looking ahead for obstacles and terrain is unparallel.  It really takes the stress out of the gauge scan, because as soon as a parameter is out of range, an immediate visual and audio alert is sent compared to looking over at an old analog gauge and wondering "how long has that been reading zero?"   Coupled with the AP flying the plane, this frees your focus to OUTSIDE the plane where I could focus on my surroundings, looking for traffic, and places to land in the advent of an engine failure.  The parachute just ads to the wide margin of safety I feel when flying my CTSW compared to my previous planes.   

 

The trip was non-eventful both ways, but I was concerned about high temperatures, my weight, and the density altitude at our Covington stop on the way out there.  Even at near max gross weight, 93 degree temps, and a higher density altitude, it was no problem for my little CT.  My altitude shot up to 8500' to clear clouds and as low as 1400' on the way back.  I used flight following as much as I could and knocked out a very long trip in comfort, economy, and speed.  It was roughly 4.5 hours out there and less than 4 hours back with a nice tail-wind.  In fact, my first leg back had a ground speed of 142 knots with a wicked tailwind.  That's the fastest my little plane had flown.  The ride was stable, and I even knocked off a XC landing of gusts up to 15-17 as a non-event.  

 

I know our CTSW's have a reputation of being "sporty," but it really is just a matter of getting used to it.  Coming from an extremely sluggish and heavy 182P into an LSA only magnified the differences, but I MUCH prefer the CT any day.  Also, the more you load up these CT's the more stable they are.  If I were to go on a flight with heavy forecasted winds, I would get as close to max weight as I could, as it really does make a difference.  On calm days, if I'm solo and light on fuel, these planes are a blast.  I can usually get up to pattern altitude (1000' agl) by the end of my runway. 

 

So, if you are contemplating the CT series, rest assured they are not only great fun for burning holes in the sky, but also quite capable cross-country machines.  Flight Design really did do a great job of making such a great small plane.  

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Here we are, my son waited about 15 minutes before he requested the inflight snack service.

 

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Co-pilot napping from the smooth ride @ 8500'.

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Parked in Fayetteville, AR.  The covers worked great!

 

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Ground-speed greatly enhanced by a pretty wicked storm off my left wing about 25 miles away.

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Putting down the power (*for an LSA...) to get ahead of this storm. 

 

Bob

   

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CTs are great cross country machines, if the weather and winds are not too bad.  I have made several 800+nm trips in mine, and dozens of smaller 200-500nm trips.  It's pretty comfy and 4hr+ legs are no issue if your bladder can handle it.  Bill and I regularly flew 4hrs or more per leg going back and forth out West. 

For guys it's even possible to bring a bottle along as a urinal for more endurance, but you need an autopilot, patience, and a little contortionist skill.  But if you solve that one problem 5-6hr legs become doable if you really want to.

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You guys must be super fit or something … for me , it is normally max 2.5 hours or so … if I were to be in my plane for 5 or 6 hours , I suspect I would end up having to be extracted with some heavy duty equipment.

Yeah, I don’t have a CT but my Sting is more comfortable with a recliner like seat so it is just a matter of not having enough room in a small plane to stretch or change position in any meaningful way - I just hit 50 and I am 6 feet and 215 lbs so it is not like I am disabled in any way .. still , can’t imagine flying for 5 hours straight.

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43 minutes ago, Warmi said:

You guys must be super fit or something … for me , it is normally max 2.5 hours or so … if I were to be in my plane for 5 or 6 hours , I suspect I would end up having to be extracted with some heavy duty equipment.

Yeah, I don’t have a CT but my Sting is more comfortable with a recliner like seat so it is just a matter of not having enough room in a small plane to stretch or change position in any meaningful way - I just hit 50 and I am 6 feet and 215 lbs so it is not like I am disabled in any way .. still , can’t imagine flying for 5 hours straight.

It can be a struggle.  I have a bad lower back and 2hrs is about where I start having some discomfort.  I can go a lot longer than that, but I'm definitely shifting and trying to find more comfortable positions often.  I've had my CT long enough that I have found a few "go to" positions that I can alternate to keep from completely locking up.  I have definitely had trouble getting out of the airplane after really long legs, but find that I recover pretty quickly once I can move and stretch.   

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I stuffed the seat bottom with a couple layers of premium high density foam - that made a world of difference.  Almost so much foam it was difficult to get the seat cover over top of it.  Prior I'd have a sore butt within two hours.  After - I've done as much as 7 hours in a day and feeling so much better along the way.  Buying the David Clark One-X ANR have been a nice treat too - I wish I had purchased these sooner.  Feed some tunes in with bluetooth, the hours go by quick and pleasurable. 

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Did one 9 hour day. Music would have helped, but have that now. It's my first plane with an autopilot. Never understood the need until flying 3/4 the way across the USA! It will be a huge help when going to Oshkosh. Also got some Bose headsets which are much more comfortable than what I had on the 9 hour day. The overall seating position gets uncomfortable for me with the low seating position and stick forcing my legs straight out. My Mooney sat low too, but I could move my legs around more without the stick. The Mooney seat back would recline too.

Oshkosh will be an exception with about 15 hours one way, hopefully in two days, but the CT is pretty comfortable for my normal 1-3 hour cross country trips.

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Great ideas on the seat.  As I age, I had to sell the Prius we owned because it hurt my back on long drives.  Never used to do that and we did some long trips as a family in that car.  Any other car you could plan your bathroom or food breaks around gas stops, but in a Prius you’d starve and wet yourself before you burned through a tank of gas.  

So far, I have found my CTSW very comfortable and haven’t had to modify the seat.  
 

I did make an in flight bathroom break once in the 182.   Without a good auto pilot and my wife taking the controls it was interesting to say the least...  she kept telling me to hurry up while we were in a slight bank and losing altitude.  I had a hard time relaxing...  I was even called out by the controller for the erratic flying.  I said I was finishing up some business and would return to straight and level soon.  They were laughing in the background.  😀
 

I still carry an empty Gatorade bottle in the floor storage if the need shall arise again.  With a good auto pilot and the already relaxed position it should be much easier to turn to the side and accomplish the mission! 
 

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Oh yeah, and a good noise canceling head set makes all the difference.  If you don’t have a set I highly recommend you treat yourself and your passenger to a set.  My Zulu 3’s allow blue tooth for music or phone calls, but I’ve never used it.  My son did music and Netflix through his on part of our trip.  
 

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With the reclined position two things can make long cross country difficult for me.

When I have to take a leak I find it harder to get everything "positioned" for a drip free experience.  Just not anatomical to do this while reclined.  There may be a trick to this but so far it has eluded me.

Also with the reclined position my brain just won't let me relax my feet on the rudder pedals.  It's mainly my right leg but I get a shin splint type of muscle fatigue on that side.  I made up a foot rest for the passenger side but don't feel like it would be safe for the pilot.

Small gripes.  Compared to a 182 or 210 where I feel like I'm sitting in a straight backed chair.

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I fly from the right seat.  I wear Merrell Encore shoes that slide on and off easily.  On long trips, I remove the shoes and put my right foot to the right of the rudder peddle and the left foot between the rudder peddles.  If one needs to engage the rudders quickly and firmly, one is pushing with the bare foot, but it's certainly doable.  I can slide each foot back into the shoe easily without using my hands.

As far as bladder relief, find your nearest glider port and go down and have a chat with them.  Many gliders have recumbent seats and there are a number of different approaches to bladder relief.  As you know, many gliders stay aloft for 3-6 hours.

 

 

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On 7/5/2021 at 12:04 PM, okent said:

With the reclined position two things can make long cross country difficult for me.

When I have to take a leak I find it harder to get everything "positioned" for a drip free experience.  Just not anatomical to do this while reclined.  There may be a trick to this but so far it has eluded me.

Also with the reclined position my brain just won't let me relax my feet on the rudder pedals.  It's mainly my right leg but I get a shin splint type of muscle fatigue on that side.  I made up a foot rest for the passenger side but don't feel like it would be safe for the pilot.

Small gripes.  Compared to a 182 or 210 where I feel like I'm sitting in a straight backed chair.

On long flights I often cross my legs at the ankles or bend my knees and put my feet flat on the floor , so that my legs aren't positioned under constant strain.

Something I have considered but not tried (yet) is what is known as a "Texas catheter" or condom catheter.  It's just like a condom that you roll over the...um...equipment, that has a tube attached at the tip going to a bag.  With that setup you can just fly along and relieve yourself at will with no  fuss.  Doesn't work for the ladies and again I haven't tried it, but it might be a great idea for the really long hauls.  I have heard some military pilots use them.  Here's the kind of thing I mean:

https://www.amazon.com/Incontinence-One-Week-Catheters-Self-Seal-Draining/dp/B01DHDTAK2/ref=sr_1_49?dchild=1&keywords=texas+catheter&qid=1625663697&sr=8-49

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I haven't taken a leak in my CTLS yet, but I have bottles on standby. When I do, my thought is to unbuckle, then get on my knees on the seat and swivel  rearward, then do my thing into a bottle. Of course, with A/P engaged and in smooth air. I'm about 5' 9", so I think it'd work. As important as it is to work on crosswind landings and other important aspects of flight, I should also be conducting pee practice proficiency.

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I had to laugh at “pee practice proficiency!”  I suppose we should all do a “dry run” in the hangar before we need to do an actual emergency pee procedure in air.  In the 182, I turned to the side facing my door and straightened out (my whole body) like a stick.  That allowed a drip free experience.  I envision the same technique in the CT, but have not done any field testing.  

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Even though I'm one of the younger fella's around here, I am approaching old man biology, that being 2 cups of tea in the morning = 5 trips to bathroom.  I've learned a few pointers over the past having routinely done this, even my first trip from Tulsa back home had me somewhere over Missouri figuring this out.  First, use a large enough bottle in volume, and one with more of a larger diameter in the bottle area - this is so when it's laid more horizontal the neck and opening remains higher.  I used a straighter wall drink bottle the first time with large opening, and have found the the Gatorade type containers work better. The clothes you wear make a difference, shorts v/s jeans.  I have unbuckled a time or two, but with my new belts I can place lot of slack in them and stay buckled.  Having hit a some crazy bumps in calmer air (rare but it happens), I don't like to unbuckle ever.  Lastly, don't wait until your eyes turn yellow, when it comes time to do this having more control over situation and being less stressed, seem to make it both easier and more comfy.  

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11 hours ago, EB3 said:

I haven't taken a leak in my CTLS yet, but I have bottles on standby. When I do, my thought is to unbuckle, then get on my knees on the seat and swivel  rearward, then do my thing into a bottle. Of course, with A/P engaged and in smooth air. I'm about 5' 9", so I think it'd work. As important as it is to work on crosswind landings and other important aspects of flight, I should also be conducting pee practice proficiency.

I think you are going to have trouble with this.  Moving around that much in a CT cockpit is going to throw weight around and cause the AP to hunt, plus you are going to end up in a position where you are unable to control the airplane *and* are unbuckled.  What happens if you bump the AP disconnect button?  Now you are unsecured and bouncing around in the cockpit of an out of control airplane with your pants down.  :D

When I did it I unbuttoned/unzipped my pants, carefully pulled them down a bit, stuck the bottle inside my pants between my legs, lined up, and let fly.  I didn't have to twist around or get out of my harness (I might have unbuckled the lap belt, not sure).  The joystick is a bit in the way, but I worked it out adequately.

As you can tell from this long discussion, it's not as simple an operation as it first appears!  

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Never going to be an easy task, but I have found that this bottle helps with it's flat bottom shape and handle.  $10 on amazon and fits in the foot storage area perfectly.

Lucky for me we have an airport every 15 mins of flight time in California, so a quick pitstop at and uncontrolled field adds maybe 20 minutes and allows for a quick stretch as well.

 

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About 7 years ago I flew my Aerotrek A240 LSA to Denton, TX and needed to pee 3 times en route. This plane has no A/P, so it was a very tricky ordeal! On my first "go," I somehow managed to get my underwear stuck on the stick as I pushed my pants down, so suddenly the nose was pointed straight down. I managed to recover quickly enough to not tear the wings off in a screaming VNE dive. That first pee was the worst, but all three pees resulted in the closest thing I've ever been to doing aerobatics. 😁

Proudly I didn't spill a drop that day, despite the dive and other gyrations.

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19 minutes ago, johnnyjr said:

Never going to be an easy task, but I have found that this bottle helps with it's flat bottom shape and handle.  $10 on amazon and fits in the foot storage area perfectly.

Lucky for me we have an airport every 15 mins of flight time in California, so a quick pitstop at and uncontrolled field adds maybe 20 minutes and allows for a quick stretch as well.

 

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That looks pretty close to ideal.  Do you have a link?

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