Trade my CTSW for ??

[Ed Cesnalis]

I have really enjoyed my CTSW(s) since 2006.  Now I have a girlfriend who has a dog and friends.  I've decided I want a more capable but still cool and affordable aircraft.  A Cessna 182 would fit the bill nicely but over my head pricewise.  

I'm thinking a 180 Comanche and a 200hp Cardinal interests me as well.  What other cool affordable (probably classic) design am I not thinking of including?

There do seem to be a lot of Comanches around here.  There is also a lot of weather around here so I see IFR capable as valuable.

[Anticept]

Piper is the route you want to go for affordable if you consider the big three (Piper, Cessna, Beechcraft).

Keep in mind the age on commanches and cardinals; you REALLY want to get someone to take a very, very good hard look at the spars, and in the case of the commanche, also a hard look at the gear swinging.

Do not be afraid to walk away from a deal. I have a lot of not too kind words for quite a few used airplane sellers who like to try and pawn their garbage off on someone else and don't have an ounce of conscience about the bullshit they're trying to pull.

[Towner]

Mooney? Look at an F model. 10 inches longer than a C model, 5 inches to rear seats and 5 to baggage. 

[GrassStripFlyBoy]

The legacy GA fleet is either real old and with those issues & risks, or nice newer clean models that are crazy $, and I'd also not overlook fuel burns and what is likely coming in 100LL costs or its replacement.  I was thinking Mooney as well, they seem to be good value from a 4 place / IFR / speed and such.  But my first recommendation would be experimental, a Glastar is a sweet ride.  Then you as the owner can do work on it that you feel up to, if you choose.  Glastar would be super high on my list for an all around plane that's not LSA.  Fairly easy to swap from tail dragger to nose wheel too.  Here's one: BARNSTORMERS.COM Find Aircraft & Aircraft Parts - Airplane Sale, Jets, Helicopters, Experimental, Warbirds & Homebuilt

[Tip]

One hundred dollars an hour for fuel is a deal breaker for me.

[Madhatter]

Most GA planes are 40 to 60 yrs old, high time and patched over and over, junk. I see them every day. To get them right it takes a lot of money. I know some used aircraft dealers, what they do is criminal, I've looked at the planes.  I have restored a lot of planes, very costly. Buyer beware. A well maintained aircraft will cost a lot, there are no shortcuts. Avionics are ancient and trash and good new avionics cost what the plane costs. 

[Skunkworks85]

1 hour ago, GrassStripFlyBoy said:

The legacy GA fleet is either real old and with those issues & risks, or nice newer clean models that are crazy $, and I'd also not overlook fuel burns and what is likely coming in 100LL costs or its replacement.  I was thinking Mooney as well, they seem to be good value from a 4 place / IFR / speed and such.  But my first recommendation would be experimental, a Glastar is a sweet ride.  Then you as the owner can do work on it that you feel up to, if you choose.  Glastar would be super high on my list for an all around plane that's not LSA.  Fairly easy to swap from tail dragger to nose wheel too.  Here's one: BARNSTORMERS.COM Find Aircraft & Aircraft Parts - Airplane Sale, Jets, Helicopters, Experimental, Warbirds & Homebuilt

Agreed, the glastar is on my short list, RV6, RV7, RV9. But you're not getting a dog in the RVs. I think the RV10 or glastar sportsman 2+2 is the holy grail for the best of both worlds. Even the prices on thoes two are unreal.  You can buy an early 2000s cirrus for half the price of what the most recent RV10s are going for.

Not sure what a base model sling 4 can be had for.. but if you where in the RV10 price range, that's also a contender with a rotax.. 

[Ed Cesnalis]

4 hours ago, Towner said:

Mooney? Look at an F model. 10 inches longer than a C model, 5 inches to rear seats and 5 to baggage. 

Of course a nice Mooney fits. thanks for pointing out the longer F model, wasn't aware

[Ed Cesnalis]

4 hours ago, GrassStripFlyBoy said:

The legacy GA fleet is either real old and with those issues & risks, or nice newer clean models that are crazy $, and I'd also not overlook fuel burns and what is likely coming in 100LL costs or its replacement.  I was thinking Mooney as well, they seem to be good value from a 4 place / IFR / speed and such.  But my first recommendation would be experimental, a Glastar is a sweet ride.  Then you as the owner can do work on it that you feel up to, if you choose.  Glastar would be super high on my list for an all around plane that's not LSA.  Fairly easy to swap from tail dragger to nose wheel too.  Here's one: BARNSTORMERS.COM Find Aircraft & Aircraft Parts - Airplane Sale, Jets, Helicopters, Experimental, Warbirds & Homebuilt

thanks, I have to agree

[Ed Cesnalis]

3 hours ago, Tip said:

One hundred dollars an hour for fuel is a deal breaker for me.

me too.  I'm not sure why you are saying that with 9 gal / hour pretty much being fuel burn on an IO-360 that these choices use.

[Tom Baker]

10 hours ago, Ed Cesnalis said:

me too.  I'm not sure why you are saying that with 9 gal / hour pretty much being fuel burn on an IO-360 that these choices use.

Except for the 182 you mentioned. As fuel prices creep up it is getting close to the $100 per hour mark.

[Anticept]

14 hours ago, Ed Cesnalis said:

Of course a nice Mooney fits. thanks for pointing out the longer F model, wasn't aware

There are several fuselage lengths in Mooneys. The later the model, the longer it gets!

https://lasar.com/buyers-guide

A big word of warning about mooneys: They use the wet wing design like our CTs, but because of the nature of riveted seams, every single mooney will have to get resealed periodically. This is a PAINFULLY DIFFICULT and PRICEY job because of the sealant used; MEK won't even cut it. Every 15-25 years average, it has to be done, you absolutely want to be on the lookout to see how recently this has been done.

www.weepnomorellc.com developed a chemical sprayer and stripping process that works FANTASTICALLY and they're honestly the best bet for a resealing job, because they'll strip out all the old goo and replace with a much better sealant.

[Jim Meade]

Tri-Pacer with big engine.  Cherokee Six.  Girl friend with no dog.

[Anticept]

Tri-pacers: watch out for the wood wing models, inspect those carefully. EDIT: Wasn't tri-pacers, it was the model they were based on.

Regarding Cherokees, again, spars: https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2021/01/15/2021-00044/airworthiness-directives-piper-aircraft-inc-airplanes

[sandpiper]

Check with your insurance agent.  At my advanced age, 77, my agent told me no retractable and no tailwheels. Didn't care that I had plenty of time in each and no accidents ever. Also said if I switched to a C-182 my insurance, for same hull coverage, would be half what it is for my CTSW. The CTSW apparently has an accident rate 4 times that of a C-172.

Fuel burn for a 182 with a carb will be about 12.5 gph on average. That's what mine burned. A fixed gear Cardinal with 180 hp and constant speed would be great but a good one will be expensive. 

As stated above, there are sellers that will flat out lie and not feel any remorse. For these older planes a thorough pre-buy from someone familiar with the type, is more important than ever. Plan on the equivalent of an annual inspection plus travel costs. When I bought my last 182, about 20 years ago, I finally bought the third one I had a pre-buy done on. Beware the pretty face. 

Currently it's a sellers market and prices have gone crazy. Good luck.

[Tom Baker]

4 hours ago, Anticept said:

Tri-pacers: watch out for the wood wing models, inspect those carefully.

Regarding Cherokees, again, spars: https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2021/01/15/2021-00044/airworthiness-directives-piper-aircraft-inc-airplanes

There are no wood wing Tri-Pacers.

As for the Cherokees, I have a Warrior that needed the Eddy Current inspection. The tech said it was one of the cleanest he had looked at. For the other wing spar AD I have looked at 3 airplanes so far, and all were clean. I have two more to cut inspection hole in and look at this month.

[Anticept]

2 minutes ago, Tom Baker said:

There are no wood wing Tri-Pacers.

As for the Cherokees, I have a Warrior that needed the Eddy Current inspection. The tech said it was one of the cleanest he had looked at. For the other wing spar AD I have looked at 3 airplanes so far, and all were clean. I have two more to cut inspection hole in and look at this month.

The wing ribs weren't wood? Maybe I am thinking of a different airplane.

[Tom Baker]

2 hours ago, Anticept said:

The wing ribs weren't wood? Maybe I am thinking of a different airplane.

Pictures at a glance might look like wood ribs, but they were a truss structure made from aluminum. Taylorcraft used the same style rib pre war, byt switched to stamped aluminum ribs post war. The Taylorcraft L2 di have wood ribs, because aluminum was harder to come by during WWII.

[KentWien]

I went through the same decision process. Got a dog, sold the SW which I loved and got a Husky where our dog rides in the back. 
 

But now that a Flight Design F2 is out, I’d consider it as that area behind the seats is HUGE.

 

[Animosity2k]

4 hours ago, KentWien said:

I went through the same decision process. Got a dog, sold the SW which I loved and got a Husky where our dog rides in the back. 
 

But now that a Flight Design F2 is out, I’d consider it as that area behind the seats is HUGE.

 

I've been debating it heavily! I'm in the middle of a Cobra replica build right now though and trying to make smart decisions! 

[Towner]

Lots of old Mooneys have had after market bladders installed for fuel. One time deal and no more leaks. Mine had it and they were great.

Mooneys have a really tough airframe and wing. If there isn't corrosion problems,  you won't have to worry about issues like spar cracks and similar issues starting to show up on other brands of older planes. One piece wing with the first ever failure in the last 6 months, but due to a pilot caused complete loss of control. Even then, people were surprised the wing broke.

Engine compartment is tight though and a little tough to work in, but not too bad.

The older planes had 180 or 200 hp. Good cruise at reasonable gas. The F model and 201 are considered mid body length, which is the 10 inch stretch I referred to. Same airframe, but the 201 has some speed mods. About 145 kts cruise on an F model and 155 kts on a 201, which is pretty good on 200 hp.Tons of after market speed mods available if you need faster...

Plenty of room in back seat and baggage. People think they are small on the inside, but they are actually wider than the bonanza. The seating position is different, with a lower seating position, which makes them look smaller. The panel is also closer than most airplanes, again making them seem smaller. No problem with taller pilots. They are tighter getting in and out than some other planes, but comfortable once inside.

Later, long body models have bigger engines and faster, but are much more expensive to buy and burn a lot more fuel.

[207WF]

the 200 hp cardinal RG was my favorite of many rentals over the years, and I have about 600 hours in them.

140-143 knots on 10.5 gph.   60 gallons of fuel plus about 700 pounds, and a really comfortable cabin.

NIce instrument platform, and I flew a lot of IFR living in Seattle.

The back seat pax felt like they were in a private jet.

Dog liked it, too.

WF