John DiStefano Posted March 21, 2022 Report Share Posted March 21, 2022 Is there a resource (page) on the forum that describes the progression of changes thru the model years? Thanks!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted March 21, 2022 Report Share Posted March 21, 2022 Not that I am aware of. If you want to ask about specific changes I may be able to ballpark the change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrassStripFlyBoy Posted March 21, 2022 Report Share Posted March 21, 2022 Flight Design CT - Wikipedia This is far from exhaustive, but has some info that might be helpful? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill3558 Posted March 21, 2022 Report Share Posted March 21, 2022 I loved my 2008 CTLS, but now flying a 2013 CTLSi. The interior is improved. Leather covered mushroom, carpet, dual Dynon Skyview, vs the D100, 120, much better autopilot. Better fuel economy with the fuel injected engine. Better power at takeoff. Aside from that it’s the same airplane. Same cruise speeds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John DiStefano Posted March 22, 2022 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2022 Thanks..Anything structural thru out the model years? Is the wing and Stabilizer the same? When was the change over to Dynon Skyview? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted March 22, 2022 Report Share Posted March 22, 2022 I don't think any significant structural changes, at least for the US models. 07 and early 08 serial number airplanes have a different aileron control system that is heavier feeling. The Skyview was introduced 2009, so about 2010 for new airplanes, but they still used D100- D120's as well. I think 2010 for Matco wheels and brakes, and a seat change. Not sure exactly when they went from grey speckled paint interior to the solid grey or tan. The 912iS was introduced in 2012, so they were available after that along with the 912ULS. They also built some light versions with a D100 and analog gauges. There were also some special edition airplanes with special interior details. There may have also been a few with Garmin 3GX set ups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John DiStefano Posted March 22, 2022 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2022 Thanks. is switching from a D100 to Skyview a relatively straightforward task or..not worth the effort and expense? in your opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlennM Posted March 22, 2022 Report Share Posted March 22, 2022 I would say that it depends on what you mean by structural: Appearance,? Repair materials? I would say FDUSA can ask the factory if something specific. For instance, the construction of the stabilator was changed during the production life of the CTSW, not just the mechanism, but the number of layers or type, which affected the bulkhead stiffness, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted March 22, 2022 Report Share Posted March 22, 2022 There are actually quite a few changes just most don't know about them and many are internal. Some are just a switching or parts or a different configuration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted March 22, 2022 Report Share Posted March 22, 2022 Over the life of the CT series there have been lots of changes, but for the CTLS the changes have been fairly minor. As I noted above it has been mostly equipment changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted March 22, 2022 Report Share Posted March 22, 2022 7 hours ago, John DiStefano said: Thanks. is switching from a D100 to Skyview a relatively straightforward task or..not worth the effort and expense? in your opinion. I don't think I would call it a straight forward task, but it can be done. You would be limited to the SV-D700, the SV-D1000 won't fit in the same space. The SV-D1000 would require switching to the larger mushroom. If you add a second Skyview it will require a second AHARS, and pitot static system to be added. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Meade Posted March 22, 2022 Report Share Posted March 22, 2022 I switched. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FredG Posted March 24, 2022 Report Share Posted March 24, 2022 Tom, I don't know if things have changed but, about three years ago, I installed dual 10" SkyView touch displays in my RANS S-20 and installed one AHARS to serve both displays. My system didn't require a second AHARS or a second pitot/static system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madhatter Posted March 24, 2022 Report Share Posted March 24, 2022 A second AHARS does not need another pitot static system in any aircraft. The two are tied into the one pitot static system. Some large aircraft already have two pitot static systems anyway. They are however sensitive to any undrained water . The Garmin G3X uses one AHARS for up to 3 G3X displays if desired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted March 24, 2022 Report Share Posted March 24, 2022 I'm going to be that guy, sorry. If it uses the pitot static system, and it's one box, then it's ADAHRS :-). Air Data, Altitude and Heading Reference System. If it's two boxes, then the AD computer and AHRS computer are two different units. Anyways, on topic: If you're one of the first lucky few, you got a mixer mechanism in your cargo bay that is horizontal. It's a little stiffer, but many of the same parts are there, such as the flap actuator. The BRS is more difficult to remove. Around 2010, Skyview became an option. You can find a mix of D series and skyview series aircraft around then. Matco came standard around 2010-2012ish. Sensenich became an option around 2012? Can't remember exactly. Definitely a better propeller than neuform, though the differences aren't enough to just go replacing it willy nilly. Electric trim came with the first CTLSi I believe. Along with skyview becoming standard. There are some models out there that use a frans(?) style oil thermostat. They mount over the radiator instead of along the right side. VERY expensive thermostats, back in 2014 or so they were over 800 dollars. Autopilots are either trutrak or dynon, and even those are of various models. Some came with nav radios, some didn't. If you had a D series dynon install and have a nav radio and GPS, you also got an HS34 to let you switch between the signals. Flap control board were replaced with a new model around 2008ish. You will find the older 08's with one mounted on the firewall as well as on the panel (separate computer and relay controls), while new models have it combined on one board on the panel. Very minor differences from the pilot perspective, very different from a deep dive maintenance perspective like diagnostics and programming. Rare to find, but some CTLS have towing kits. There are also a few out there equipped with towbar anchors. Hand tow only. They were special order for a time anf are not an option anymore, people were damaging the steering system badly because they ignored the HAND ONLY part as well as oversteering. Steering centering mechanism was replaced in around 2010 too, and safety directives came out as an option. The old system wasn't strong enough to handle the bears here in the US that were trying to force the steering and resulted in damage. Some CTs came with 6 pin headset connectors as an option. Mine has the wonkiest pitch servo mounting. It is mounted to the underside of the thickened access cover instead of to the belly. Only one I have heard of like that. The big three changes would be the injected engine, skyview avionics, and matco wheels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted March 24, 2022 Report Share Posted March 24, 2022 13 hours ago, FredG said: Tom, I don't know if things have changed but, about three years ago, I installed dual 10" SkyView touch displays in my RANS S-20 and installed one AHARS to serve both displays. My system didn't require a second AHARS or a second pitot/static system. I was speaking SLSA. I could be wrong, but I expect that the MRA for the change would require what I described above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madhatter Posted March 24, 2022 Report Share Posted March 24, 2022 I haven't ever seen any <6000 lbs GA aircraft with two separate pitot static systems and have done hundreds of IFR certifications.There are many with two static ports but tied to the same line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted March 24, 2022 Report Share Posted March 24, 2022 N235KB has two pitot tubes, one static port. Supposedly each tube feeds each ADAHRS unit, but I haven't opened it and traced myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madhatter Posted March 24, 2022 Report Share Posted March 24, 2022 Having two pitots on a CT is absolutely pointless, unless of course you are into falec symbols Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted March 24, 2022 Report Share Posted March 24, 2022 It is indeed pointless. When I saw it, I was scratching my head. I would rather take one heated pitot over 2 unheated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Gee Posted March 25, 2022 Report Share Posted March 25, 2022 7 hours ago, Madhatter said: Having two pitots on a CT is absolutely pointless, unless of course you are into falec symbols 2 hours ago, Anticept said: It is indeed pointless. When I saw it, I was scratching my head. I would rather take one heated pitot over 2 unheated. I tend to agree, but I can say it kept me out of trouble once. My CTLS has dual pitot and dual ADAHRS. Left pitot goes to left ADARHS, right goes to right ADAHRS, and they share a static port on the belly. Flying IFR (E-LSA) in IMC and flew into a pretty good rain shower (no lightning, no convection, no icing, would never dream of flying a CT in those conditions). Didn't think anything of it, as the dual ADAHRS gave no real issues or differences in cruise. Started to slow down to start a GPS approach and got an airspeed mis-compare. Hit the compare button on the Skyview and found a disagree of about 15-20 knots. Based on groundspeed from the GPS and estimated winds aloft, I figured out which of the ADAHRS units was wrong and made the correctly indicating one primary. While I would have been ok without the airspeed since I had GPS and had an estimate of the winds aloft, it definitely led to a lower "pucker factor". We suspect water may have ingressed into the pitot and either stuck before the water trap, or got passed the water trap and blocked the line. Functioned fine after removing the lines and lightly blowing air back out of the pitot tube. Probably overkill for VFR only, but I wish the certified aircraft I flew had dual pitot. Just got done installing a Dynon in a Cessna 172 in the flight school I manage and wish the dual pitot was an option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted March 25, 2022 Report Share Posted March 25, 2022 The pitot booms have no drain port. I would either fit a port in the cockpit to open to try and drain the tube when there's a possible mismatch, or swap to a proper pitot tube with a drain before attempting IMC in a CT. Double redundancy really isn't much better than a solo system anyways if there isn't a fast way to reject the failure. Two sources if conflicting information adds a lot of workload. There are some really oldtime pilots who will berate you if you can't fly with a covered up ASI! I tend to agree with them too, because tactile feedback tells you a LOT, and it's a skill I recommend everyone try to develop where safe. Though I admit, flight design stall characteristics are very subtle... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madhatter Posted March 25, 2022 Report Share Posted March 25, 2022 Again there is no GA aircraft I have ever seen with two pitot tubes other than larger aircraft with dual panels for pilot/copilot. I installed a pitot water drain capability system on my CT which works well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted March 25, 2022 Report Share Posted March 25, 2022 On 3/22/2022 at 11:23 AM, John DiStefano said: Thanks. is switching from a D100 to Skyview a relatively straightforward task or..not worth the effort and expense? in your opinion. If you *only* have a D100 and no D120 (as I do), Then it's probably more complicated if you want to get the EMS functionality out of the Skyview. You'll want to install all the probes and sensors that the EMS can use for engine monitoring, and that could take quite a bit of wiring. If you want to use the Skyview autopilot that's another bunch or wires. If you have a D120 for EMS and want to continue to use that, then that simplifies things a bit. I have a D100 and the little minimal UMA engine gauges in my airplane. I have looked changing to Skyview or Garmin G3X, and every time I price it out and look at adding all the engine monitoring, I come to the conclusion that for the day VFR flying I do, it's not really worth the expense and hassle. You might come to a different conclusion, but for me the added functionality is a "nice to have" more than a "gotta have". I have about 850 hours on my fairly basic setup, and I have never felt under-equipped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted March 25, 2022 Report Share Posted March 25, 2022 10 hours ago, Madhatter said: Again there is no GA aircraft I have ever seen with two pitot tubes other than larger aircraft with dual panels for pilot/copilot. I installed a pitot water drain capability system on my CT which works well. Is it an inline drain or a cockpit valve? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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