CT to ELSA

[kentuckynet]

Steve,

 

Who was the person you dealt with?

 

Was it in san antonio?

 

Thank you for your help

[chanik]

JR Robinson here in San Jose at 408-291-7681.

 

BTW I just saw a brand spanking new 8130-21G out 2 weeks ago. This replaces the last order also called 8130.21G so no confusion there. It is actually much better worded but still confusing. Leave it to bureaucrats to make something simple as clear as stirred mud.

 

From section 4084:

(8) Except for takeoffs and landings, this aircraft may not be operated over densely

populated areas or in congested airways.

Note: This limitation is applicable for phase I and II and should be issued in

accordance with paragraph 4075b(1) and (2) of this order.

 

Damn, I guess I can only fly over the desert.

 

(9) This aircraft is prohibited from operating in congested airways or over densely

populated areas, unless directed by air traffic control, or unless sufficient altitude is maintained

to effect a safe emergency landing in the event of a power unit failure, without hazard to persons

or property on the ground.

 

This sort of contradicts the previous paragraph and is essentially identical to the limitations of FAR 91.119 for certificated aircraft.

 

(10) This aircraft is to be operated under VFR day only.

 

Ouch, No IFR or night.

 

(11) After completion of phase I flight testing, unless appropriately equipped for night

and/or instrument flight in accordance with 14 CFR § 91.205, this aircraft is to be operated under

VFR day only.

 

Wait, it's OK. Note the legaleeze here. This sort of wording absolves the examiner from ever certifying that the plane is properly equipped.

[Steve Moliterno]

kentuckynet the person I worked with in san antonio is

 

Fowles, Thomas C. Aviation Safety Inspector (Airworthiness) (210) 308-3303

 

Steve.

[207WF]

FD can prohibit the plane from IFR even if it is E-LSA, I think! They prohibit IFR now, as does rotax the engine, so maybe E-LSA won't get us IFR anyway? WF

[chanik]

Nope. You only have to follow Flight Design's direction IF you are S-LSA; the regs are pretty clear about that. Otherwise you are free to 'experiment'.

[kentuckynet]

"Edsel said was to make sure you do get a phase one"

 

What is this phase one? Is it a form? If so what is the form number?

 

mack

[chanik]

Phase one is the limited range, usually 25miles from base, day, vfr flight operations you need to conduct on a new homebuilt, coverted warbird, or substantially modified plane in the experimental category that explore the flight envelope and serve to vet the plane's airworthiness before it is allowed to operate generally.

[Roger Lee]

In your program letter believe it or not you can ask for a phase one distance. I have a friend here at Ryan with his RV that ask for and got 300 miles for the first 40 hrs. This is the second time he has done this.

 

Mack,

When you get a phase one in your letter of operations. you should be able to just sign it off in the logbook because you have more than enough hours already on the plane. You see more restrictive pahse one letter's for first time flight in kit built type planes. You are only changing categories and your plane has been flying so it has already proven itself.

[kentuckynet]

About placards:

 

Can anyone tell me which ones must be removed and which ones must be added?

 

Anyone that has done this a photo would be great...

 

thanks

mack

[Roger Lee]

Hi

I don't think anything needs to be removed, but you will have to add an "Experimental" sticker. It just needs to be visible by the occupants and there may be a stipulation about letter height like 2", but you'll need to check on that.

[chanik]

EXPERIMENTAL in 3" letters or larger must be on the fuselage AND visible to any passenger has to be this placard information:

Passenger Warning: This aircraft is amateur-built and does not comply with federal safety regulations for standard aircraft.

 

Also, the placard should be fireproof. No kidding.

[FastEddieB]

You can see the required placards in my prior Sky Arrow photos in this thread. I got them from Aircraft Spruce (I think) for about $2 each*. I did not remove any existing placards.

 

If it was a prior S-LSA, the passenger warning will read as below (not Amateur Built)

 

 

I used Michael Huffman for my S-LSA to E-LSA conversion. He did all the paperwork, and conducted a quite comprehensive inspection of the aircraft.

 

http://www.sportaviationspecialties.com/About_Us.htm

 

If you're in Kentucky, he's a lot closer than many of those mentioned (Lawrenceville, GA, near Atlanta).

 

You get a new set of Operating Limitations, which must be carried in the plane. They seem to be very restrictive, but in my case after careful reading they only apply after a major modification, and then only for a certain number of hours.

 

In any case, I'm right near the TN/GA/NC border - nearest airport is Copperhill, TN (1A3). Great destination if you want to fly in and chew the fat.

 

 

*I have an extra "EXPERIMENTAL" decal if you need it. I ordered two, thinking one was required on each side of the plane. As stated earlier, only one is required if it can be seen by any enplaning passenger.

[kentuckynet]

thanks for all the info!

 

there is one sticker in the ctsw that says somthing like this aircraft is a SLSA and has a special airwothiness...........you get hte idea.

 

i assume i would remove that one?

 

and im correct that the experimaental only goes on one side? I fly from the right seat, so i put it outside the aircraft on the left side?

 

this fireproof plate i read about is that something i have to add to the aircraft as well or is the serial plate on the tail still sufficient?

 

mack

[chanik]

The specific placard warning about Experimental nature of the plane must be added and is supposed to be fireproof though I doubt anyone has ever been dinged with that rule. Nothing needs be removed.

[kentuckynet]

with my ctsw as a SLSA what is my "current flight restrictions" im suppose to have this when i meet the DAR??????

 

mack

[FastEddieB]

with my ctsw as a SLSA what is my "current flight restrictions" im suppose to have this when i meet the DAR??????

 

mack

 

My guess would be that that would be covered under "Operating Limitations" in your POH.

 

But I'm not an expert here so its just a guess.

[S3flyer]

Probably off topic but could you declare that your E-LSA could be flown in IMC if appropriately equipped as per FAR 91?

[Roger Lee]

Mack,

 

Your flight restrictions should not be any different from what they are right now, except flight over congested areas. You have all the info you need in your POH and other documentation that came with the plane.

[kentuckynet]

Roger

 

Remember how i got my plane (pieces)......

 

I have no documnetation other than the poh....so i havent a clue what they are asking me for!

Thats why i asked you guys......i will assume you dont know what the limitations are?

 

Thanks as always

mack

 

i will look through my poh.....if i cant find something about limitations i guess i can call sebring since they sold the plane new.

[Roger Lee]

Just call FD and ask for a copy of the POH and limitations. They are the same for all CTSW's. If you can find someone get a copy from him.

I heard there is a guy doing greetings at Ace hardware that has a set.

[kentuckynet]

thant made me smile!

[FastEddieB]

i will look through my poh...

 

I believe they've all been standardized so that "Limitations" is always Section 2.

[kentuckynet]

Anyone know how to fill out form 8130-15 Light-Sport Statement of Compiance

 

http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/form/faa8130-15.pdf

[Larry]

Hi-

 

This is a great thread that I have come back to read several times now. I have been flying Light Sport aircraft for several years now. I currently own a 2005 Aerostar Festival R40S that is currently registered S-LSA. It is a neat Romanian built sport plane that I love flying.

 

I am ready to begin the process of converting its registration to E-LSA in accordance with 14 CFR §21.191(i)(3). I have all the paperwork completed and the required documents and placards etc., on hand.

 

What I am still working on is the specific wording to use in a couple spots on my program letter. I have written acceptable program letters in the past, but none that were specifically for an S-LSA to E-LSA conversion. There are lots of examples out there of other FAA program letters for reference, but what I would really like to see an example of on that has been used for this specific conversion process. Anybody here have a copy of one they could post or direct me to?

 

The program letter is often discussed, and its general intent I already understand. What would really help me at this time is to just be able to reference a relevant example.

 

Thanks in advance-

 

Larry

[Jim Meade]

I had my CTSW converted from SLSA to ELSA at Oshkosh at the LSRM-A class byDAR Brian Carpenter of Rainbow Aviation. I recommend them. Google them and ask them. It was a pretty simple deal. I had to change the Light Sport sign to Experimental and had to add a different passenger warning decal.