New F2 in our fleet!

[coppercity]

Picked up our new F2 and will be adding it to our training fleet next year.  Wonderful flying aircraft with great performance, features, and room!

 

[strawhead]

What is the useful load for your particular plane? Wish they could get the weight down!

[eventhorizon]

Nice! A few questions:

• The wing spar seems close to the pilot's/passenger's head. For taller people, what is the risk of the head hitting the spar, perhaps during turbulence? Also, does the spar restrict forward visibility?
• Will you be handling the inspections and maintenance yourself? Is it difficult to find maintenance experts for LSAs and Rotax engines? Will parts become difficult to source?
• Compared to other high-wing aircraft (C172, Bristell B8), is it easier to get into the F2? It looks like the plane is a little closer to the ground compared to other aircraft. If so, it would be easier to get into. But this is difficult to judge based on photos.

I hope you have wonderful training experiences with the F2. Happy new year!

[coppercity]

9 minutes ago, eventhorizon said:

Nice! A few questions:

• The wing spar seems close to the pilot's/passenger's head. For taller people, what is the risk of the head hitting the spar, perhaps during turbulence? Also, does the spar restrict forward visibility?
• Will you be handling the inspections and maintenance yourself? Is it difficult to find maintenance experts for LSAs and Rotax engines? Will parts become difficult to source?
• Compared to other high-wing aircraft (C172, Bristell B8), is it easier to get into the F2? It looks like the plane is a little closer to the ground compared to other aircraft. If so, it would be easier to get into. But this is difficult to judge based on photos.

I hope you have wonderful training experiences with the F2. Happy new year!

 

Thank you! 

This photo might show better the very large door.  The opening is low and makes entry very easy.  As with the CTs the seats move down as they transition aft so for taller folks, you sit well below and behind the spar, so there is minimal risk of hitting your head.  The dash also has built-in airbags and, of course, the airframe parachute! It is filled with safety features!

As for maintenance and inspection I handle that for our aircraft. There  seems to be a slowly growing population of Rotax trained mechanics so finding a mechanic should get steadily easier.  The F2 has mostly AN hardware throughout the airframe, and parts for our other Flight Design aircraft have been easy to get through Airtime Aviation.  

[coppercity]

3 hours ago, strawhead said:

What is the useful load for your particular plane? Wish they could get the weight down!

Ours is a bit heavy with the full IFR training setup.   Hopefully mosaic goes thru early next year, we will transition this F2 under the new rules and will have a decent 530+lb useful load.   For now I'll instruct the lighter pilots and my light weight wife will instruct the heavy ones

[CTB]

If I could.

I am 6'1" with longer legs. When I am moving around during preflight and runup I gently hit sometimes the spar cover with the top of my BOSE head set. It could be different with HALO. I never realized any contact between my head or headset with the spar during normal flight operation and/or in the turbulent conditions. I have around 100 hours in mine and when it comes back from the annual (sorry, condition inspection), I will try a cushion to give me a little more cowling visibility. My head will still be behind the spar and I don't expect any issues. This is a very comfortable plane. And I flew plenty of Cessnas, Pipers and Mooneys. 

Yes, one of the main reasons I decided for F2 is super easy and comfortable in and out, super wide cockpit and great no spar visibility. My wife is 5'4" and she just hops in no problem. 

I really love this plane. Did we have a few hick-ups and small things to fix? Yes, but this is a brand new model so it was expected. 

I am a big engine guy ( cars and boats) but I love this Rotax thing. I took Rotax repairman course and Light Sport Repairman as I am intending to convert my plane to experimental to be able fly legally IFR ( plane is equipped) and do inspections and repair on my own. 

[eventhorizon]

Thank you Eric and CTB!

Good to hear that:

• The wing spar does not cause visibility issues or risk of hitting one's head.
• More mechanics are getting familiar with LSAs+Rotax and parts are available. Do you anticipate that the recently-announced insolvency of Flight Design will adversely affect parts availability?

Is the service map in FlightDesignUSA.com still valid? Or do we need to take a plane to Airtime for service?

In October, FlightDesign announced that they have started shipping two F2s per month to Airtime. How long does it take to get one?

Good to see that you have been able to install the 750 in addition to the standard equipment. Is the F2 rated for IFR?

 

[eventhorizon]

2 hours ago, coppercity said:

Hopefully mosaic goes thru early next year, we will transition this F2 under the new rules and will have a decent 530+lb useful load.

During Oshkosh earlier this year, the chairman of the ASTM F37 committee working on the MOSAIC standards gave an update (1:29 to 2:34):

1. The FAA expects the rule to be finalized in the May-July 2025 time frame and they currently feel that they are on track.
2. After that, the standards (currently being worked on by ASTM) have to be accepted. This can take 6-10 months.

After that, the rule becomes effective and manufacturers can certify their aircraft to MOSAIC standards and pilots can make use of the MOSAIC rules. So it is looking like 2026.

[Chris S.]

Those are great shots Eric, thank you! Do you have a feel for how much room is behind the seats? Is there enough for a (folding) bike or a medium/large dog?

[Mike Koerner]

What's the black duct running alone the ceiling on the left side, from the pilots seat back to the bulkhead behind the cockpit?

[eventhorizon]

16 minutes ago, Mike Koerner said:

What's the black duct running alone the ceiling on the left side, from the pilots seat back to the bulkhead behind the cockpit?

Looks like it was added to the production version. The prototype (6:25) did not have it. Other production units do have it (3:38).

[FlyingMonkey]

Hey Eric...

How different is the training syllabus for the F2 versus the CT series?  Could somebody familiar with, say a CTLSi, get up to speed quickly on the F2?

[Skunkworks85]

8 hours ago, eventhorizon said:

Looks like it was added to the production version. The prototype (6:25) did not have it. Other production units do have it (3:38).

looks like it covers a flight control. The ailerons.

 

[Tom Baker]

4 hours ago, Skunkworks85 said:

looks like it covers a flight control. The ailerons.

 

If it were ailerons I would have expected there to be the same on the opposite side. I wonder if this airplane has A/C? I noticed that there are vents on the rear panel, so while it is probably a cover, it might also be an airduct.

[Skunkworks85]

10 minutes ago, Tom Baker said:

If it were ailerons I would have expected there to be the same on the opposite side. I wonder if this airplane has A/C? I noticed that there are vents on the rear panel, so while it is probably a cover, it might also be an airduct.

From the maintenance manual, this is the alerion controls.  you can see the fancy system in there, tube 5. one thing to note, It appears the wing is one piece. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[eventhorizon]

1 hour ago, Skunkworks85 said:

Quote

 It appears the wing is one piece.

The wing is a single piece. See "Wings, Things" in the Plane&Pilot article.

[coppercity]

On 12/28/2024 at 8:26 PM, eventhorizon said:

Thank you Eric and CTB!

Good to hear that:

• The wing spar does not cause visibility issues or risk of hitting one's head.
• More mechanics are getting familiar with LSAs+Rotax and parts are available. Do you anticipate that the recently-announced insolvency of Flight Design will adversely affect parts availability?

Is the service map in FlightDesignUSA.com still valid? Or do we need to take a plane to Airtime for service?

In October, FlightDesign announced that they have started shipping two F2s per month to Airtime. How long does it take to get one?

Good to see that you have been able to install the 750 in addition to the standard equipment. Is the F2 rated for IFR?

 

I think the service map is a little out of date but a good number listed should be available still.

So far I believe FD is still shipping 2 a month but slowly ramping up to additional builds.  Airtime would have a timeline on new orders.

The F2 LSA can be used for IFR training in VMC conditions but is restricted from flying in IMC.

[coppercity]

10 hours ago, FlyingMonkey said:

Hey Eric...

How different is the training syllabus for the F2 versus the CT series?  Could somebody familiar with, say a CTLSi, get up to speed quickly on the F2?

Hi, 

The F2 is an easy transition from CT, it is very stable and easy.  Speeds are similar to a CT. You can almost keep your feet on the floor as it has very good yaw stability.  The single throttle/brake is an easy transition as well.

[coppercity]

15 hours ago, eventhorizon said:

Looks like it was added to the production version. The prototype (6:25) did not have it. Other production units do have it (3:38).

Yes, just a cover for the aileron controls 

[coppercity]

19 hours ago, Chris S. said:

Those are great shots Eric, thank you! Do you have a feel for how much room is behind the seats? Is there enough for a (folding) bike or a medium/large dog?

Hi Chris,

With the seats fully aft the baggage area is around 22"x45"x45" and rated for 88lbs.  

[eventhorizon]

Eric, thank you for your response. I look forward to videos with your F2!

There have been two issues reported with LSAs:

• Control forces are light, much lighter than C172.
• Landing is challenging since LSAs tend to float even if the speed is a little bit higher than what it should be.

FlightDesign claims that the F2 has made significant improvements in both of these issues (compared to CT). CTB did mention that their F2 is lighter and landing speed had to be precise. How challenging is it to go back and forth between an F2 and aircraft like the C172?

[Eddie Cesnalis]

6 hours ago, eventhorizon said:

LSAs tend to float even if the speed is a little bit higher than what it should be.

Unwanted or excess float is a function of excess speed even in LSA.  If I approach at less than 50kts there is zero float.  If the speed is a bit higher than what it should be it will float if not baloon.

[FlyingMonkey]

12 hours ago, coppercity said:

Hi, 

You can almost keep your feet on the floor as it has very good yaw stability.  The single throttle/brake is an easy transition as well.

Well that is a pleasant change from the CTs and their significant adverse yaw.  Thanks for the info.

[FlyingMonkey]

On 12/28/2024 at 1:48 PM, coppercity said:

Picked up our new F2 and will be adding it to our training fleet next year.  Wonderful flying aircraft with great performance, features, and room!

Where is the BRS?  Behind the gray panel at the rear of the baggage bay?  If so that looks significantly further aft than in the CTs.

[EricB]

On 12/28/2024 at 10:26 PM, eventhorizon said:

Thank you Eric and CTB!

Good to hear that:

• The wing spar does not cause visibility issues or risk of hitting one's head.
• More mechanics are getting familiar with LSAs+Rotax and parts are available. Do you anticipate that the recently-announced insolvency of Flight Design will adversely affect parts availability?

Is the service map in FlightDesignUSA.com still valid? Or do we need to take a plane to Airtime for service?

In October, FlightDesign announced that they have started shipping two F2s per month to Airtime. How long does it take to get one?

Good to see that you have been able to install the 750 in addition to the standard equipment. Is the F2 rated for IFR?

 

My experience is that maintenance for both the CT and Rotax vary wildly depending on where you are.  In California, for example, there seem to be numerous options.  In the great lakes area (my area) choices are few and far between, especially if the plane is not flyable for some maintenance condition.  I know my limitations and while I understand the concepts of both engine and airframe just fine, I am not adept at the physical manipulations required to be a good mechanic.