Airplane identity

[Roger Lee]

No one knew what a Cessna or a Piper was in the beginning either. Now everyone knows. If you don't tell them they will stay ignorant.

 

Like I said if you don't tell them who will.

[Jim Meade]

Dick,

 

I do about as you, but you needn't use "N" if you use the model or manufacturer. I've never had anyone tell me not to, but the AIM doesn't call for it. Not a big deal, just saying. Flight Design 9922Z or N9922Z are equally correct.

 

 

[Runtoeat]

Jim, interesting that AIM doesn't call for using the "N". It wouldn't hurt to spend some time going over AIM since it's been a while. At the local airports I don't use the "N" and what generally seems to occur after initial contact is most controllers just use last two identifier numbers when making contact with me. I said "ACT" in my previous post. Meant to say "ATC". Speaking of AIM, I was thrown a curve a few weeks ago. I was asked for "equipment type". After responding I did not recall what my aircraft had for a designation, the controller said that he would use "/U" and suggested I look into this. After this communication, I recalled that our CT's are designated "/U", which means we have a certified Mode C capable transponder.

 

 

[N751JM]

We are getting a new CTLS in Santa Rosa (CA) in March and I had not yet thought about how I should identify myself to the tower (and their response), so this thread has been very helpful. Currently there are several LSA's on the field and the ones that have a pronounceable model (eg Skycatcher) are called that. A friend's RV-12 is called "Experimental Light Sport". I'd originally thought of using "Flight Design" as that seems more descriptive than "CT".

 

Maybe I'll just invite the controllers for a flight and see what they call it

[Jim Meade]

Jim, interesting that AIM doesn't call for using the "N". It wouldn't hurt to spend some time going over AIM since it's been a while. At the local airports I don't use the "N" and what generally seems to occur after initial contact is most controllers just use last two identifier numbers when making contact with me. I said "ACT" in my previous post. Meant to say "ATC". Speaking of AIM, I was thrown a curve a few weeks ago. I was asked for "equipment type". After responding I did not recall what my aircraft had for a designation, the controller said that he would use "/U" and suggested I look into this. After this communication, I recalled that our CT's are designated "/U", which means we have a certified Mode C capable transponder.

 

 

 

From the AIM:

 

 

ATC specialists may initiate abbreviated call signs of other aircraft by using the prefix and the last three digits/letters of the aircraft identification after communications are established. The pilot may use the abbreviated call sign in subsequent contacts with the ATC specialist.

 

I've always had them use three characters, but the AIM in a paragraph just above the one quoted mentions use of two or three characters, as in your experience.

 

Many of us have /U equipment as you mentioned and in addition a portable or panel mounted non-IFR approved GPS. In the case you cited, one response might be, " 1234A is /U with a VFR GPS". The last is not required but can help the ATC know what you may be capable of doing. People in an IFR plane that is /U are encouraged to add "VFR GPS" in the remakrs block of the flight plan.

 

The AIM reference for the equipment type designations is: Table 5-1-2. This is for the domestic non-RNAV types. If filing RNAV (which we don't do) one uses the ICAO designators which are a little different and can be stacked to provide more information.

 

 

[Runtoeat]

Jim, I wan't sure about the GPS as far as ATC was concerned. I'll now respond with "/U and VFR GPS" when queried about equipment. I also must add that I should have said that ATC responds to me with my two final numbers AND my letter or "22 zulu". Interesting to know ATC can use only two final characters but like you, I have not heard ATC ever do this.

[Farmer]

Please

 

What is the equipment response if you have mode S and TIS? With the mode S on I was never asked how equiped. With a plan for more than local flight I always advise clearence that I will be asking for flight following and give the type as F D C T, it always worked so far. They will ask for the destination and even if it is several hours away they have passed me along even if I lose radio contact for a time. I did not have much cross country experence, there is no where to go here in Hawaii.

 

Thanks

 

Larry

[Roger Lee]

Hi Dick,

 

They do it a lot around country, but technically they aren't supposed to do it until you do. You have to use your entire number for hold short instructions. I use 5 Alpha Bravo (525AB) after my initial contact a lot of times.

[coppercity]

FDCT is the right type, then for equipment code you would be a "/U" for a mode C transponder equipped aircraft. So far the flight plan equipment codes don't include mode S.

[Jim Meade]

Hi Dick,

 

They do it a lot around country, but technically they aren't supposed to do it until you do. You have to use your entire number for hold short instructions. I use 5 Alpha Bravo (525AB) after my initial contact a lot of times.

 

Roger has the right idea but got a bit dislexic (as I sometimes do) in the description. Here is what the AIM says:

 

 

"ATC specialists may initiate abbreviated call signs of other aircraft by using the prefix and the last three digits/letters of the aircraft identification after communications are established. The pilot may use the abbreviated call sign in subsequent contacts with the ATC specialist. " (emphasis added)

 

I've always been taught and observed that the pilot does not initiate the use of an abbreviated call sign. This makes sense if you remember that ATC may be working two positions. You see this a lot with Center, but it happens frequently at our local towered airport where Approach works both frequencies 134.05 and 119.7 although the airplanes are on either the North or the South frequency. Approach could be talking to Cherokee 619CT on the 134.05 frequency and you could check in as 319CT on the 119.7. Both pilots hear whatever ATC transmits but in this example can't hear the other pilot. It's obvious that Approach and both pilots could be confused if everyone uses abbreviated call signs at the start.

 

 

[S3flyer]

For those that might be uncomfortable with radio work or want a refresher, check out the book "Say Again, Please". It describes about every scenario you'll likely to enter and posits likely ATC/Tower/Flight Watch/etc conversations. Much easier to read than the AIM.

[Al Downs]

Jim, I wan't sure about the GPS as far as ATC was concerned. I'll now respond with "/U and VFR GPS" when queried about equipment. I also must add that I should have said that ATC responds to me with my two final numbers AND my letter or "22 zulu". Interesting to know ATC can use only two final characters but like you, I have not heard ATC ever do this.

I am new to this so I understand what "/U" is but how is it spoken?

[Jim Meade]

Uniform.

 

The FAA AIM discussion of radio work, including pronuncitation of letters and numbers is several pages down in:

 

http://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/ATpubs/AIM/aim0402.html

 

 

[Al Downs]

That I understood. I did not understand the forward slash. Unspoken I guess.

 

 

Thank you

[Jim Meade]

I'd say it as Flight Design Charlie Tango Slant Uniform

[Runtoeat]

Hi Al. If I understand your question, it is how does one respond to ATC regarding the "/"? I have always responded to ATC's request for equipment onboard with "slash U" and this seems to always be accepted.