URGENT SAFETY NOTICE 5 YEAR RUBBER FUEL HOSE

[Adam]

I received the following email from John Gilmore. Looks like CPS may have supplied some substandard fuel hoses in the Rotax 5 year rubber kits.

 

From: John Gilmore [mailto:jgilmore@flightdesignusa.com]

Sent: Friday, May 04, 2012 12:53 PM

To: Adam Coffey

Subject: Safety Alert regarding CPS fuel hose kits

 

 

Dear Flight Design CTSW and CT2K owner

 

 

 

We received a Service Difficulty Report on Thursday regarding an airworthiness issue with certain fuel line shipped with

 

CPS (California Power Systems) kits for compliance with the Rotax 5 year rubber part replacement requirement. An overnight test done with a sample in auto fuel showed that the suspect fuel line degraded very quickly.

 

 

 

As a result we are requesting that any owner that has used a CPS kit to replace their fuel lines do not fly your airplane until we know how to identify the suspect fuel hose.

 

 

 

We will follow up with more specific information soon.

 

 

 

If you have any further questions please contact Dave Armando at 860-963-7272 or topservice@flightdesignusa.com

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[tfdixon]

I wonder if this has any connection to the CTSW engine failure, dead stick landing and eventual crash into airport perimeter fence - fuel starvation was not allegedly and issue - on 3/16/12 at Venice,FL ?

 

 

 

 

 

I received the following email from John Gilmore. Looks like CPS may have supplied some substandard fuel hoses in the Rotax 5 year rubber kits.

 

From: John Gilmore [mailto:jgilmore@flightdesignusa.com]

Sent: Friday, May 04, 2012 12:53 PM

To: Adam Coffey

Subject: Safety Alert regarding CPS fuel hose kits

 

 

Dear Flight Design CTSW and CT2K owner

 

 

 

We received a Service Difficulty Report on Thursday regarding an airworthiness issue with certain fuel line shipped with

 

CPS (California Power Systems) kits for compliance with the Rotax 5 year rubber part replacement requirement. An overnight test done with a sample in auto fuel showed that the suspect fuel line degraded very quickly.

 

 

 

As a result we are requesting that any owner that has used a CPS kit to replace their fuel lines do not fly your airplane until we know how to identify the suspect fuel hose.

 

 

 

We will follow up with more specific information soon.

 

 

 

If you have any further questions please contact Dave Armando at 860-963-7272 or topservice@flightdesignusa.com

 

 

 

 

 

[N89WD]

Roger, what's your fuel hose ruling?

[Eddo]

I have had that hose since last June. No issues.

If it was me I would just take a look the the gascolator and carb bowls. If ethanol was going to be an issues it happens right away not months or a year later.

[Jim]

A 3 sentence notification sure stirred up a hornet's nest. Personally, I'm glad that someone is giving it some attention.

 

And BTW, we deserve to know who the "Safety Officer" is. It's just basic personal responsibility.

[Hammer]

I recently had the hose change and then (unfortunately) the plane had to sit out in the Arizona heat for weeks. I just completed a 9 hour flight (four hours of mild turbulence) with one stop for fuel and had no issues.

[chanik]

Roger is quite correct; we went over the confusing regulatory language morass in this topic

http://ctflier.com/index.php?/topic/1149-its-an-faa-regulation/page__st__20

 

Still I'm a bit freaked out about all this flaking hose/ plugged needle jet stuff so I'm glad mine isn't due for another few months (actually I could skip it as ELSA but that isn't prudent either.) Hopefully FD will do some thorough testing ASAP.

[Tony & Rose]

Roger:

Thank you for your time and detailed information.

We here concur with your findings, method and conclusion(s).

We further concur that the 'hose ends and attaching' need careful attention when 'cutting' and installing.

We operated the first two hours within landing view of our field.

We pulled the carb's at three hours. Very minor items discovered.

Currently 17+ hrs on changeout with zero problems. Scheduled for followup take-a-part at 25hrs.

Thanks again,

[Rogerck]

My partner and I did have serious deterioration in the 1/4" fuel line that resulted in rubber debries in the foat bowl and engine loss of power on take off. Yes, the engine did maintain 4000 rpm, but if you don't know what's going on, it can be pretty scary. The hose we used was Gates non-fuel injection purchased from a local auto store. No connection with CPS. The problem hose deteriorated quickly. It was one day from change out to engine loss of power. I am not an expert, but my recommendation would be to fill a sample piece of hose with gas and allow it to soak for a few days before installing. Then check with a probe to determine if the inner lining is softening or deteriorating. Fill the inside, rather than soaking the entire hose, since the outer cover will normally soften slightly, based on my samplings.

This has to be a batch quality control issue.

 

Roger Kuhn

[round_peg]

Added to Roger K.'s comments (I am the other partner in 09W), we had three incidences of debris in the float bowls after the hose change-out. So this problem is very real, to the people who've had it. We feel the problem was finally solved by replacing the 1/4" hose but we also installed a clear glass inline fuel filter downstream of the fuel pump in the process just to be sure. We were able to take that precaution as an ELSA. I presume the SLSA type certificate owners could not make this modification. We have also noticed a brownish discoloration of the fuel when drained from the sump, when the airplane has been sitting for a few days. Months now after the hose change-out this discoloration seems to be diminishing, but it does speak to something in the fuel system getting into solution. This did not occur before the hose change-out, so the basic logic is clear even if the precise cause is not.

 

So I would say that the mystery of why some CTs are afflicted and others not cannot be written off. Whether it's a matter of materials or procedure, or both, is still unknown. Either way, FD and/or Rotax need to get together and figure it out.

[BMcCand - N248CT]

I purchased the CPS kit, including a new fuel pump with integral hoses. I had to replace the intake hose to the pump from gascolator.

The Gates 5/16" hi pressure fuel hose really didn't fit over the hose barbs at the gascolator. So I purchased the 7.5mm hose

from FD, $48 / meter for 3m. That worked fine for all the fuel work, including wing roots. It wasn't by design, but I ended not

using CPS fuel hose at all.

A local mechanic said 7.5mm hose might have been available from BMW or Mercedes dealers, but I didn't try them.

[Jim Meade]

I will be interested in discussions of the various kinds of gas, not only ethanol, but the various winter blends. There is anecdotal evidence that winter blends affect components of the fuel system. So, over the course of time, it would be nice to see this issue addressed.

[Jeremy MacGregor]

I have used the Gates hose for many years and have never had a single problem until 2 months ago a customer had a clogging issue. We later found one small piece of rubber that had likely been cut off while being pushed over a hose barb and then found it's way to the bowl. I don't believe that Gates fuel injection hoses are defective but I do believe like Roger L mentioned that a extensive ground run and float bowl inspection is absolulty imperative .

[rookie]

To be on the safe side I'm going to check my carb float bowls. However considering it's been 4 months and 30 hours since my hose replacement ( with no problems) I doubt I'll find any debris.

 

al meyer

[rookie]

Roger,

 

Thanks for the heads up. I wondered why I had so much hose left over from the pkg. I sent you. Any update on Dolly?

 

al,

[round_peg]

It seems worth reiteration that the problem experienced on 09W did not involve fuel injection hose from CPS. It was Gates automotive fuel line. After installing this line, debris was found in the float bowls three times. This problem did not go away until the 1/4" lines were replaced with material that was tested before installation. However we still have the fuel discoloration issue. It does not seem to be an engine performance problem but we are watching it very carefully. These appear to be separate issues that may or may not be related to a batch of hose, ethanol blends, or winter car gas blending. At this point we all seem to be theorizing without hard data.

[Flying Bozo]

There seems to be some doubt about the Gates Hose coming apart. It did. Look at the post that I made.. Posted 12 February 2012 - 05:04 PM... to see a picture of the inside of the hose that was was actually coming apart. You can see it in the picture and best of all I saved the hose here in my shop so that if anyone doubts what was going on they can inspect it. I had four (4) occurrences of engine extreme rough and severe loss of power that were attributed to the hose flaking off small pieces of rubber and ending up int the float bowl which then evidently got into the fuel orifice. When this happens I don't recall the resulting RPM loss but it was severe and rightly so since half of the engine was essentially shut down.

The hose from the fuel filter to the crossover fuel divider is the HOLY GRAIL to say the least. Since that hose is so important it deserves the very best scrutiny in regards to its serviceability to remain impervious to deterioration of any kind.

Larry

[round_peg]

There seems to be some doubt about the Gates Hose coming apart. It did. Look at the post that I made.. Posted 12 February 2012 - 05:04 PM... to see a picture of the inside of the hose that was was actually coming apart. You can see it in the picture and best of all I saved the hose here in my shop so that if anyone doubts what was going on they can inspect it. I had four (4) occurrences of engine extreme rough and severe loss of power that were attributed to the hose flaking off small pieces of rubber and ending up int the float bowl which then evidently got into the fuel orifice. When this happens I don't recall the resulting RPM loss but it was severe and rightly so since half of the engine was essentially shut down.

The hose from the fuel filter to the crossover fuel divider is the HOLY GRAIL to say the least. Since that hose is so important it deserves the very best scrutiny in regards to its serviceability to remain impervious to deterioration of any kind.

Larry

 

Larry, we saw the same flaking inside of our hose. Still the way I read this thread and the other on the fuel hose issues is that the source of the problem is still ambiguous. Apparently Gates hose hasn't been source of problems until recently, which possibly suggests a batch issue. But it would have to be a pretty large batch I would think to have the reports so widely scattered. The other problem with nailing this as the source is that some have experienced the problem with Gates fuel injection hose purchased from CPS, and other with low pressure fuel line purchased at an auto parts store. This tends to cancel out the bad batch theory.

 

Or maybe I've really missed something.

[Flying Bozo]

Mitch,

Mine was the Gates fuel injection hose that is shown in picture coming apart. I do have the numbers that were on the hose if it matters to trace a batch.

Larry

[FredG]

I went back and read the thread from February on Gates hose deterioration. This matters to me because my hoses were replaced in February with a CPS kit (now 12 hours on the new hoses). Performance has been flawless. A few observations.

 

First, my sump was inspected and was pristine. The CPS fuel hose on my plane (the hose to the fuel pump, the only one I could see clearly) was marked "Made in Mexico". A small section was cut from the hose and immersed in gasoline. No deterioration was noted (8 hours and counting).

 

From what I have read on the previous post, it seemed that only Gates hose marked "Made in USA" has deteriorated in fuel. Hose marked "Made in Mexico" has not deteriorated.

 

If possible, it would be great if others could see if this pattern remains consistent. Has any Made in Mexico Gates hose been implicated? So far, based on very limited information from this forum, it seems like only Made in USA hose has deteriorated. It would help owners, shops, and FD limit the extent of any remediation or recall if we can limit this to a subset of hoses.

 

Thanks.

 

Fred

[Kevin-Cal Power Sys]

I first heard about this hose issue on May 1st and I talked with our Product Manager, Josh Solis. We are in contact with Gates, as well as the repair faculty that performed the hose change on the aircraft that had to make an emergency landing.

I have to agree that a proper test procedure to determine the cause has not been performed yet. We have sold hose from the same roll to dozens of customers around the globe without these issues. At this time no one can poisitvely identify what the cause of degradation is. We will remove the hose from our inventory until we can determine what is causing these problems.

Rest assured that safety is our number one concern and CPS is taking this issue seriously.

 

As I learn more I will update this post to keep everyone informed.

Kevin KaneOperations ManagerCalifornia Power Systems

[Flying Bozo]

OK on that Roger, about it coming from the auto parts store. It is possible that it might have been from the same manufacturing run as the stuff that others are having problems with. If there really was a bad run of hose then I would look farther than only one roll at one outlet as is the case with the piece that found it's way in to my plane. Someplace farther back on the supply chain there has so be some relationship.

It would be interesting to see if the nomenclature on the CPS hose is the same as the piece that I have that came from the auto parts store. Tomorrow I will make a note of it when I get to the airport.

Larry

[FredG]

Larry, the hose you photographed and posted on the Forum in February had "Made in USA" stamped on the side. Hose from the CPS kit used on my plane said "Made in Mexico". So, there are at least two suppliers. I have not yet heard of any CPS hose marked "Made in Mexico" deteriorating in fuel or flaking on the inside surface. Has anyone else?

Thanks.

Fred

[Jeremy MacGregor]

I don't work at CPS anymore so I can't speak on there behalf but I would like to put in my insight on our previous purchasing history while I was working there. Up until about 3months before CPS was sold all Gates fuel hoses were purchases by 25ft rolls usually about 4-5 rolls at a time of each size. Because of the high demand for the hose we were getting in Shipments about every 3-6months, roughly. Just before CPS was sold we were notified by our supplier that the hose was available in large quatities in what I believe was a 100ft roll maybe larger. I believe we only every ordered the 1/4" in this quantity before the sale. I vaguely remember making a note of a change of the outside texture of the 1/4" hose we were getting supplied with starting with around early 2011. The 5/16" hose never changed in appearance. Agian these are rough dates based off my memory and I'm only posting to help clear up this mess.

[Rogerck]

Reminder. Mitch and I had three in flight engine power losses before the problem was attributed to the hose. We used Gates non-fuel injection hose purchased from a local auto store. The Gates problem goes beyond hoses supplied be CPS. My suggestion is to test any new fuel hose in gasoline prior to installation until a more definitive answer (if ever) is determined.

 

Roger Kuhn