GPS Out

[airhound]

Calling on the Forum Flight Planning Expertise: What if you don't have your older Hand Held GPS for Backup when your mainstay rigs goes blank. And, lets say you are in unfamiliar airspace (taking a path less frequently traveled, at least by you, so to speak). I remember as a student years ago my instructor taking us through a DF Steer procedure. Pretty straight forward. But way back then there were many FSSs that had the DF capability and today, for flight planning, I'd sure like a list with those that still do for flight planning. Anybody have any ideas other than calling to local FISDO and asking for a list? Has anyone even had thoughts like this lately or even performed a DF Steer??....I know its hard to image not having our convienent Looking Glass...But What If?

 

Pulled the following out of AOPA Flight Training Magazine.

 

 

"Student pilots do better; their flights are usually better planned than those of certificated pilots, and the plans are checked by an instructor. But students are still not immune to getting lost. At least one student on a cross-country flight in Maryland was run off course by a controller. His instructor had drilled the student on lost procedures, such as circling a prominent feature until locating it on the sectional, calling a nearby radar ATC facility (the student had written the frequency on the chart prior to takeoff), and taking "From" readings off two nearby VORs to cross-reference his position. (The reason the instructor has his students circle a prominent landmark can be found in the FAA's Flight Training Handbook. The handbook warns that a natural reaction when lost is to fly to where it is assumed the missing checkpoint is located. On arriving and not finding it, the pilot assumes a second position and flies farther off course.)

 

The instructor had also mentioned calling flight service for a Direction Finder (DF) steer. Students learning to fly 20 years ago knew that all flight service stations had DF steer (heading) capability. But request a DF steer today and you may hear one of these two replies: "Sorry, that equipment was not transferred when we consolidated flight service stations," or "Sorry, you didn't get lost in the correct sector for our equipment to work properly." There are still 88 in service around the nation. And the FAA has more than 100 new DF steering computers in its warehouse, awaiting installation, but only in areas not covered by radar. The FAA, in other words, expects lost pilots to call the nearest radar facility.

 

That doesn't mean you should avoid calling the FSS when lost. The FSS can tell you the frequency of the nearest radar controller and can advise as to whether a DF steer is available." (AOPA Flight Training)

[crs123]

I haven't done much cross country yet, so this is just my two cents.

 

So, no GPS and you don't know where you are ...

1) Some radio calls to see of anyone else knows where you are. Your transponder would help a lot here.

 

Uncontrolled airspace with no one around to help ...

2) Try and get unlost: look for landmarks. You should still have a compass, so you should be going in GENERALLY the right direction. You should have your maps/charts. Task the PX to look out the window.

3) If that doesn't work, be glad your flying a very small airplane: look for a nice spot and set down. I'm assuming you still have good fuel and visibility. That gives you excellent choice on landing sites and you can afford to be very choosey. I would rather be in the next county, safe and sound, and rather embarrassed then end up like Amelia Earheart.

[sandpiper]

I've never been lost. But, there have been times when I didn't know where I was!

[airhound]

John

 

You know when you are in trouble if you start here things like: ...HELLO HELLO, 'This is Lost One are you Lost Too'?... Radio Check followed by silence, then of your own IC, with just you on board, "That's it, I'm Doing a 360 and getting the hell out of here".

[airhound]

I haven't done much cross country yet, so this is just my two cents.

 

So, no GPS and you don't know where you are ...

1) Some radio calls to see of anyone else knows where you are. Your transponder would help a lot here.

 

Uncontrolled airspace with no one around to help ...

2) Try and get unlost: look for landmarks. You should still have a compass, so you should be going in GENERALLY the right direction. You should have your maps/charts. Task the PX to look out the window.

3) If that doesn't work, be glad your flying a very small airplane: look for a nice spot and set down. I'm assuming you still have good fuel and visibility. That gives you excellent choice on landing sites and you can afford to be very choosey. I would rather be in the next county, safe and sound, and rather embarrassed then end up like Amelia Earheart.

 

Sounds like you've thought about this scenario before...What are your thoughts about working a practice DF Steer into your repertoire?

[sandpiper]

If DF steer is still available in your area then practice a few.

[crs123]

Ranger 6

 

Sorry. What's a DF steer? I didn't include it as I've never heard of it. Thanks.

[airhound]

crs123

I've probably made much of little consequence in my original post below. DF steer use to be a primary means to find folks that became temporarily misoriented across the land. Today, not sure if your training area is covered by a FSS with Direction Finding capability. That's why, if possible, when you call your servicing FISDO or FSS ask if a list of Flight Service Stations with DF capability exists (then let me know please). Most FSSs had it in days of old when there was lesser radar coverage throughout the land. The article points out DF Steer capability specifically exits in areas not covered by radar. From what I understand these areas are basically regions like Alaska, maybe western desert areas....I really don't know, thats why a listing of some sort would be helpful.

 

But to answer your question: From what I remember of my dated/limited experience, if you are in an area where the FSS has DF capability you could call and request a DF Steer. They would instruct you to depress your PTT, do a long count 1-10, while they used there super duper xeon ray gun device to aim at the heavens and home in on your transmission. Not sure about the device, but it probably had glowing tubes in the back that could pop popcorn. And then when they confirmed your location they would (steer) provide you a heading and distance to get you somewhere, and therefore become unmisoriented, not lost, as sandpiper would say.

[S3flyer]

I guess there are couple ways to take Ranger6's original question: a) My GPS is out and I have no idea where I am or b ) My GPS went out-- now what?

I'm going to tackle (b ) because it will explain why there should be little chance of (a) ever happening. Pardon my soapbox.

 

First, I have a 496 and absolutely love it and it is my sole navigation equipment at the moment but it doesn't excuse me from doing flight planning on the ground before I undertake a trip that is outside of my comfort zone. The comfort zone being defined as that area that is IMPOSSIBLE to get lost. For flight planning that means using the appropriate charts (Sections or WACs) and plotting the course. No I don't mean by hand -- there are several computer-based flight planners. I like the free Golden Eagle Flight Prep and get an annual subscription to Sectionals. After I electronically plot my course, I print out the route on the sectionals along with a blank flight log with waypoints I digitally marked on the map. Prints out like the old car-based 'Trip Tiks'.

 

I put this 'package' on my knee board and fly my route (which has been entered in the 496). I note on the flight log and sectional when I cross a waypoint. I also mark on the sectional when I hit certain obvious geographic landmarks. If my GPS fails, I know where I am at any point so there is no need to contact anyone. I simply fly my route the old fashioned way. After all, we are only flying ~115kts, VFR and relatively low: dead reckoning should be no problem. I also know if forecast winds are matching actual (and I have a Dynon that confirms it as well) so I can adjust any fuel stops.

 

And, yes, I've changed my route in the air and manually marked the changes on my sectionals.

 

I also keep current WACs in the plane which cover the areas I could possibly fly.

 

I see way too many pilots that just hop in their plane, punch in the destination and fly direct -- never having any idea where they are. These are accidents waiting to happen.

 

BTW --that entire flight planning sequence took around 5 minutes for a ~500nm flight from Dallas to Nashville with one stop near Little Rock. This included DUATS and filing the flight plan.

 

Now then, I will probably breakdown and simplify my process by buying an iPad with GPS and flight planning/navigation software. This will give me a backup to the 496, supply current charts and add flight planning all in one unit. I'll still keep the WACS and hopefully never need them.

 

OK -- I'll step off my soapbox now

[wlfpckrs]

I'll never leave without my backup GPS and a couple sets of spare batteries.

[airhound]

Like what I should have said, 'What if you don't have your older Hand Held GPS for Backup when your mainstay goes blank and your charts fly out the window?' .................But that dog doesn't hunt either, because you'd have to be flying a Jenny or a Stearman...for the chart excuse.

 

So, you got me on proper flight planning and pilotage....Is there a Emoticon that pokes itself in the eye?

[airhound]

A 28 Jun 2010 AVWEB Article: Solar Storm vs. Your GPS

 

By Glenn Pew, Contributing Editor, Video Editor

 

Space scientists tell us that solar storms are on the rise and affect satellite-dependent technologies like GPS and ADS-B — there is something to worry about. AVweb's Glenn Pew spoke with Joseph Kunches, a scientist at NOAA's space weather prediction center, to determine the nature of the threat, our current defenses, and what the you can do about it.

 

POD CAST URL:

 

http://www.avweb.com/podcast/podcast/JosephKunches_NOAA_202790-1.html?kw=AVwebAudio

[coppercity]

Technology is great!, However we should all be capable of old school pilotage and dead reckoning using current charts that should alwasys be in the airplane. As mentioned, online flight planning tools do all the work for you assuming you input the correct performance information. Take that information with you to backup what your GPS is telling you. For the most part you should be able to get some radar coverage if you climb high enough, and using flight following on cross countries can add some extra safety. If all else fails, don't they still paint city names on water towers!

[airhound]

Any Flier have experience with using ICOMs A24 VOR capability?

[Roger Lee]

What did people do before the age of a GPS? I think any pilot should be able to find there way just like others did before us. A GPS is a nice to have item for sure, but if it fails then I'll still find my way and I'm sure the rest of you will too. You will fall back on the skills that you were taught during your training and for some of you before the electronic age.

[Ed Cesnalis]

What did people do before the age of a GPS? ...

 

We zig zagged

[Roger Lee]

I still do.

[Dave]

I had an GPS failure on a cross country from Idaho to Oregon. I was within 10 miles of my destination, 7S3, when my GPS suddenly lost satellite reception. While I had the right charts out and knew about where I was, I could not for the life of me spot the strip in an area I was unfamilar with. Since I was in contact on the airport frequency I asked for help in spotting the runway and explained my loss of GPS. The bad part was that I was entering into KHIO's airspace (class D) without knowing it and was directed by those on the radio to immediately turn left to exit the space. As it turned out that also brought me into the traffic pattern for my destination and I was able to spot the runway. It was a terrible feeling and it could have caused problems with other traffic. A very untimely and short loss of direction, but still potentially dangerous.

[airhound]

Dave,

Thanks for sharing your experience it allows for some Monday Morning Quarterbacking/Lessons Learned thinking. No doubt our other Flier Repliers have been there too but are a little bashful in their short replies!

 

Looking at the map, it appears you might have skirted or were going over the top of the nearby Class C airspace before the GPS lost signal and just guessing, maybe were heading south or west.

 

Did Approach or the Class D tower move you out because of a of traffic? And were they trying to vector you to your destination in the process or did your calm and cool pilotage win the day?

 

I'm just trying to visualize myself in the same situation and understand better how I would react. Thanks Again Dave!

[crs123]

crs123

I've probably made much of little consequence in my original post below. DF steer use to be a primary means to find folks that became temporarily misoriented across the land. Today, not sure if your training area is covered by a FSS with Direction Finding capability. That's why, if possible, when you call your servicing FISDO or FSS ask if a list of Flight Service Stations with DF capability exists (then let me know please). Most FSSs had it in days of old when there was lesser radar coverage throughout the land. The article points out DF Steer capability specifically exits in areas not covered by radar. From what I understand these areas are basically regions like Alaska, maybe western desert areas....I really don't know, thats why a listing of some sort would be helpful.

 

But to answer your question: From what I remember of my dated/limited experience, if you are in an area where the FSS has DF capability you could call and request a DF Steer. They would instruct you to depress your PTT, do a long count 1-10, while they used there super duper xeon ray gun device to aim at the heavens and home in on your transmission. Not sure about the device, but it probably had glowing tubes in the back that could pop popcorn. And then when they confirmed your location they would (steer) provide you a heading and distance to get you somewhere, and therefore become unmisoriented, not lost, as sandpiper would say.

 

Thanks for the info. I haven't learned any IFR, so it's all news to me. Much appreciated.

[Dave]

Ranger6

The incident all happened so quickly and as I look back, and quite smoothly, but at the time it seemed forever. I did not get into the class C space and was only on the local 7S3 frequency as they guided me into the airport. The person in the area had me in sight and told me I was in Class D space, which turns to make and what to look for. By the time I had tried to reset the GPS, find where the strip was, watch for other aircraft etc, I was going West into KHIO space. I should have circled 5 to 10 miles out while trying to figure out a plan.

[airhound]

Thanks for the info. I haven't learned any IFR, so it's all news to me. Much appreciated.

DF Steer is not pecular to intrument conditions. It also applies to VFR conditions as well.

[207WF]

In most places you can find your way with VOR. I have the SL30 and always have a VOR nav solution running as a backup. If you don't have VOR receiver you could carry something like a sporty's hand held with VOR and Com. I also have one of those, sitting on the floor in front of my seat on cross countries. You need to practice with this to use it reliably. - WF

[airhound]

Thanks! I have an ICOM A24w/VOR. Do you have any tips for effective use of HH VOR. Is range a very limiting factor compared to your sl30?

[207WF]

I think it is -- range limited compared to the SL30, although that can be improved with an external antenna -- and I don't use the handheld much since I have the SL30. I do have the headset cords plugged into the handheld and ready, but for me its an emergency back up. However, I saw a CT at the Columbia fly-in that had a hand-held bolted to the left side of the instrument pod just inside the left window. (I have considered putting a cup holder there!) That would let you operate the thing with one hand, and with much less distraction than my set-up generates. WF