kentuckynet Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 Going to replace all 3 tires, desser has the 4.00 x 6 in both the 6ply and 8 ply? Also can i get the 4.00x4 front tire to fit if i go with an 8 ply? thanks mack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted June 4, 2012 Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 Hi Mack, The 8 ply tires are on another thread and have had numerous comments and a few issues. I did a research project on them and worked with Desser. The 4.00-6 8 plys are nice enough tires with a little more rubber, but you need to keep enough pressure in them to keep them round and to keep them from slipping on the rims. The Italian rims are the worst and the Matco rims that FD has been using since Jan. 2009 are far better and you can run a little less pressure. I know of a few using the 8 plys. When I first tried them I thought they had an out of round issue with 35 psi, but found out they need more pressure to keep them in shape due to the much stiffer side wall. Most are using 45-50 psi with the Italian wheels, but FD only authorizes 35 psi where they did their drop test. The front wheel is the big problem with the Italian wheels. Using 35 or less pressure will cause the tire to slip on the front wheel during taxi and it absolutely will pull the stem out. It may take a few times, but it will happen and happen even faster if you don't keep a check on the pressure and it gets below 30 psi. I have fixed 4-5 of these and 3 were on a ramp after landing with a front tire. The taxi on the ground and turning is what makes them slip. The other issue is that a few people using the 8 ply has shaved rubber off the top of the tire because FD left very little space between the tire and the fork tube that is welded down through the fork. I have seen 3 tires rub tire to metal using the thicker rubber 8 ply. So the bottom line is they may work okay for you or they may not. One thing for sure is they are a stiffer ride. If you don't mind the stiffer ride with the extra pressure and the front tire doesn't rub high center your good to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted June 4, 2012 Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 I had 8 ply on the mains on my old CTSW. They were very stiff, very hard. I didn't like them. When Roger did my Matco upgrade I had him put a new set of 6 ply's back on the mains. Funny this thread should pop up now. Just today I pitched those very 8 ply's in the trash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted June 4, 2012 Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 Hi Adam, Don't you have 8 plys on your new plane? The last brand new LS I saw had them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kentuckynet Posted June 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 thanks roger.. guess ill stick with 6 ply on the mains, but what about the front wheel, right now i have a 4.00-4 8pr aero classic. Is this the 8 ply already? mack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
207WF Posted June 4, 2012 Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 8 plys on the front here, and Roger had to grind some metal off the bottom of the front fork to keep it from rubbing the tire too much. I also had an out of round issue. I got some tire balancing weights from the local tire shop and that has helped, but I still have to lighten the nose early to keep from feeling a vibration just before lift off. On the other hand, they might last forever! WF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted June 4, 2012 Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 yes it is and make sure you keep the pressure up or you may be sitting on the runway somewhere trying to push or taxi off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N89WD Posted June 4, 2012 Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 8 plys on the front here, and Roger had to grind some metal off the bottom of the front fork to keep it from rubbing the tire too much. I also had an out of round issue. I got some tire balancing weights from the local tire shop and that has helped, but I still have to lighten the nose early to keep from feeling a vibration just before lift off. On the other hand, they might last forever! WF [/quote I have that exact same vibration. I have a 6 ply nose tire and 8 ply mains, all tundra sizes. That vibration pisses me off and have tried everything short of having the tire "trued" using a shaving machine. I've been all over with air pressure, balancing, etc. I wish I could get my OE tire back, I believe the tire is just heavy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted June 4, 2012 Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 Hi Adam, Don't you have 8 plys on your new plane? The last brand new LS I saw had them. I will have to check Roger. Not recalling without looking. I'll report back. I do have tundra on the new plane so the tires are bigger all the way around. On the SW the 8 ply I had on the mains felt very stiff on the sidewall and the ride was pretty rough. The 6 ply on the CTSW was much more comfortable on the mains. We did keep the 8 ply on the front tire of that plane and it was soft on the sides even though it was 8 ply. I suspect not all 8 ply tires feel the same. Could be size is an issue too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted June 4, 2012 Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 If you have the 6.00-6 tires they aren't 8 plys. The small tires are 8 plys. The 6.00-6 tires from Desser can come in an 8 or 6 ply. I would not recommend the 8 plys. They are too stiff and the 6 ply 6.00-6 6 plys are more than enough for our plane wieight. One tire alone could support the entire weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N89WD Posted June 6, 2012 Report Share Posted June 6, 2012 8 plys on the front here, and Roger had to grind some metal off the bottom of the front fork to keep it from rubbing the tire too much. I also had an out of round issue. I got some tire balancing weights from the local tire shop and that has helped, but I still have to lighten the nose early to keep from feeling a vibration just before lift off. On the other hand, they might last forever! WF [/quote I have that exact same vibration. I have a 6 ply nose tire and 8 ply mains, all tundra sizes. That vibration pisses me off and have tried everything short of having the tire "trued" using a shaving machine. I've been all over with air pressure, balancing, etc. I wish I could get my OE tire back, I believe the tire is just heavy. Well gotta eat some crow...after reading the air pressure reply from RL, Iwondered how much air I had in my tires since I hadn't checked them for about 6 months. 25psi in all 3. I aired all 3 up to 50, rotated at 50ias, full tanks, very, very little vibration...happy! Went down to Alpine, WY (46U) on landing and roll out, I really liked it, positive feel. Just an update. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted June 6, 2012 Report Share Posted June 6, 2012 Hi Mike and others, The 8 plys need attention to pressure and don't like to be low on air. After 6 years working on CT's I also believe all tires need to be balanced or you may feel a vibration (some don't). The normal balance weight for a tire balance on our planes is 1 oz. to 1.5 oz. That may seem like a lot, but the center of gravity is close and the wheel is small so it needs more weight to affect it. I use the 1/4oz. self sticking weights. When you apply the weights clean the wheel area 3 times before you apply the weight. It should not come off. The 4.00-4 and 4.00-6 8 plys need more pressure to get them round and keep them there over a 4 or 6 ply. Desser tire will tell you the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted August 4, 2012 Report Share Posted August 4, 2012 Hi Adam, Don't you have 8 plys on your new plane? The last brand new LS I saw had them. I finally checked... I think I have the "newest CTLS" on the block so it should be indicative of what is shipping currently: Tundra Package Mains are 6.00 - 6, made by Air-Trac, 6 ply Front is 4.00 - 6, made by Aero Classic, 6 ply Looks like still shipping with 6 ply Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted August 4, 2012 Report Share Posted August 4, 2012 I just had a customer install a set of Desser Monster treads 6.00-6 8 plys and the front was a 4.00-6 8 ply. This particular CT had front fork clearance for the 8 ply. Some have not. Letting the pressure get a little low (i.e. <25 psi) has torn out at least 6 valve stems that I know of. The issue with the 8 plys on the front is the Marc Ingegno front wheels are not very good in design and won't hold the stiffer sidewall tire from turning on the rim during taxi. It lacks good tire & tube surface contact with the wheel. You can replace the Marc's with a Matco front wheel which goes along way to correct this. There is nothing really wrong with the front 8 ply it's just a stiffer tire and needs more pressure to give it its shape and not look like it has a flat spot and to hold it firmly on the wheel. I believe all the CTLS's after Jan. 2009 have Matco fronts and mains. The front Matco wheel is around $95 +/- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gmoore7 Posted September 18, 2012 Report Share Posted September 18, 2012 After reading all of this about tires I called Desser today to return my front tire (4.00-4-8) that I purched a few months back only to find that they no longer are able to get it in 6 ply. I guess we will have to do some trimming from now on unless we can locate another source for 6 ply's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted September 18, 2012 Report Share Posted September 18, 2012 The Desser Aero Classic is there own tire. Desser are the ones that stopped production on the 6 ply. I agree that the 6 ply should come back. I'll call Ken (1 of 2 Desser owners) and plead our case tomorrow. Gmoore, You can use it, but you absolutely need to keep the pressure up to 35 -45 psi if it is on a Marc Engegno wheel. I think you would be okay at 35 psi with a Matco front wheel. You also need to make sure it doesn't high center on the fork. I have seen two do this, but others have been okay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gmoore7 Posted September 20, 2012 Report Share Posted September 20, 2012 Hi Roger Let us know if you are able to get Desser to provide the 6ply again. My front tire is good for a while so I will look for your post on what Desser tells you. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted September 20, 2012 Report Share Posted September 20, 2012 Hi Gary, Talked to one of the Desser owners yesterday. The 8 ply is here to stay. They said they had a few issues with weight on some of the 6 plys. The only option is the 8 ply or the 4 ply utility tire which is thin. It is really a 15 mph tire, but he stated many use it on aircraft and have been for years. The other option is to replace the front fork setup for about $1800 and go to the 4.00x6 6 ply that FD now uses on all h planes. I know this would be an expensive solution.I'm a believer in the larger tire set for the CT. 4.00x 6 6 ply from the front and 6.00x6 6 ply for the mains. The Desser 6.00 x 6 6 ply Monster tread are great tires for the mains. They last longer , thorns don't puncture, the rubber is a harder dura and they wear like iron. You can also get the Michelin Airstop tubes for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gmoore7 Posted September 24, 2012 Report Share Posted September 24, 2012 Hi Roger, Thanks for calling Desser. I am also a believer of bigger tires. I did replace the mains last week and have time left on the front so I will start analyzing my options. Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gmoore7 Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 UPDATE, I was able to locate a 4.00x4.00 6 ply. I found it at SKY-CRAFT.co in the UK. The cost including shipping was around $40.00. It did take a full three weeks to get it, but better than getting a new front end. It is not near the 8 ply tire from Desser, but my AP said it should be fine. Hope this helps someone save some money on their next purchase. Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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