flyerg1000 Posted July 17, 2012 Report Share Posted July 17, 2012 Is this a common occurrence with these seats? Both seats have cracked badly and none of the seats have been overloaded. Do we know why they crack? Niels CTLS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercity Posted July 17, 2012 Report Share Posted July 17, 2012 One of my seats cracked in that area as well, I found that my taller students were not keeping the back strap tight enough allowing the seat bottom to ride on the hump in the belly of the aircraft created by the main landing gear attachment area. It becomes a interference issue when the seat is back past the third holes in the rail and the recline strap is left loose or slips. The landing gear attach area creats a nice pressure point on the corner of the seat. A indentation in that portion of the seat area to allow for that gear area would be nice and would allow for a little more recline when the seat is further back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Meade Posted July 17, 2012 Report Share Posted July 17, 2012 My CTSW has one seat with a much smaller crack up near the top. I'll probably patch the seat. I'll look into establishing some kind of cushion or stand-off to prevent the interferrence. I sit with my seat most of the way back, and sometimes the headphone jacks are pushed by the seat. I'm going to relocate the jacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted July 17, 2012 Report Share Posted July 17, 2012 What usually causes these cracks is when the seat top is allowed to rest against the bulkhead. The strap on the backs of the seats should be tight enough not to allow the seat to touch the bulkhead when someone's weight is in the seat. It should have 1-2 inches of clearance at the top. Allowing the seats to rest against the bulkhead cause a fulcrum point and will stress the seat where it would want to fold under the pressure. The SW usually cracks up in the middle back and the LS cracks lower. Keep the seat support straps snug. When it tighten mine I usually throw in a halve hitch under the buckle to keep it from slipping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocRon Posted July 17, 2012 Report Share Posted July 17, 2012 What usually causes these cracks is when the seat top is allowed to rest against the bulkhead. The strap on the backs of the seats should be tight enough not to allow the seat to touch the bulkhead when someone's weight is in the seat. It should have 1-2 inches of clearance at the top. Allowing the seats to rest against the bulkhead cause a fulcrum point and will stress the seat where it would want to fold under the pressure. The SW usually cracks up in the middle back and the LS cracks lower. Keep the seat support straps snug. When it tighten mine I usually throw in a halve hitch under the buckle to keep it from slipping. On this subject, Gentleman, I have a real problem with my seat. For my long legs I've tried sitting closer and farther back, but the seat back sits so low that I'm putting an unusual amount of pressure on my mid-to-lower thighs which is causing pain in my thighs and hips. Do any of you have an opinion on doing something to raise the seat back a bit higher which should lessen the pressure on the my legs? It would seem that by making the seat more level (to the longitudinal axis of the aircraft) it would take the pressure off the front side of the seat and more evenly distribute it across the legs and backside of the pilot. If such an idea is reasonable, would it be an effective compromise (and not in any way harmful to the seat integrity) to place a wedge of stiff styrofoam under the seat, say a right triangle 12 inches long and two or three inches high? My thinking is that it would level the seat while (hopefully) not doing anything to affect the stability or integrity of the seat. I'm also having the seats reupholstered with aircraft-grade memory foam. Your opinions would be appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runtoeat Posted July 17, 2012 Report Share Posted July 17, 2012 DocRon, I think the foam is a good idea and would work. I considered doing this a while back but have not. I'm thinking there are two problems that might arise if you use styrofoam. One would be the foam eventually compressing. If this happens, you could cut another piece and start over. Or, perhaps the foam will compress and form to the bottom of the seat and to the floor? This would be a good thing. The other problem may be squeaks. Seems that everytime I've done something with styrofoam like you propose, the foam rubs against the other object and squeaks. Maybe some sort of fabric layer between the seat bottom and the foam if squeaks occur? FWIW, the seats in my CTSW were repaired and so were the seats in my friend's CTLS. Since the repair, I make sure the adjusting strap is tensioned to keep the seat off of the bulkhead, as Roger points out, and haven't had any problems since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted July 17, 2012 Report Share Posted July 17, 2012 If you move the seat around the seat belts can fall and get wedged between the seat and the tracks causing cracks if you don't catch it. I had one get cracked that way at a fly in when someone was trying on the airplane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercity Posted July 17, 2012 Report Share Posted July 17, 2012 I would caution stuffing things under the seat, I would imagine that clear area left under the seat allows the seat somewhere to go after the rear strap would break in say a parachute landing protecting your back in such an impact. I'm not positive that's what it's for but I know the seats in a Cirrus are designed with a honeycomb that crumbles on impact to protect the occupant during parachute landing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlennM Posted July 18, 2012 Report Share Posted July 18, 2012 I am 6'-5" so I ordered the left seat without the headrest. I can put the lower pins in the forward-most holes and use the rearstrap to keep the seat off the bulkhead. The shorter seat back allows the seat to pivot more aft, taking weight off your legs and putting more on your back. It has worked fine for me for five years. It makes the empty plane look odd since the seats are not identical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tip Posted July 18, 2012 Report Share Posted July 18, 2012 If you move the LS seat back to the 4th hole, the seat bottom will come in contact with the gear leg socket. My friend is 6'4" and looks uncomfortable with the seat back that far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocRon Posted July 18, 2012 Report Share Posted July 18, 2012 Thank you, Gentlemen. Good suggestions all. I'll think about this a bit more first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerg1000 Posted July 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 One of my seats cracked in that area as well, I found that my taller students were not keeping the back strap tight enough allowing the seat bottom to ride on the hump in the belly of the aircraft created by the main landing gear attachment area. It becomes a interference issue when the seat is back past the third holes in the rail and the recline strap is left loose or slips. The landing gear attach area creats a nice pressure point on the corner of the seat. A indentation in that portion of the seat area to allow for that gear area would be nice and would allow for a little more recline when the seat is further back. Hi Eric All good points, don't allow pressure points. Thank you for your reply Niels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerg1000 Posted July 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 My CTSW has one seat with a much smaller crack up near the top. I'll probably patch the seat. I'll look into establishing some kind of cushion or stand-off to prevent the interferrence. I sit with my seat most of the way back, and sometimes the headphone jacks are pushed by the seat. I'm going to relocate the jacks. Thank you for the reply Good luck with the repair Niels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerg1000 Posted July 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 What usually causes these cracks is when the seat top is allowed to rest against the bulkhead. The strap on the backs of the seats should be tight enough not to allow the seat to touch the bulkhead when someone's weight is in the seat. It should have 1-2 inches of clearance at the top. Allowing the seats to rest against the bulkhead cause a fulcrum point and will stress the seat where it would want to fold under the pressure. The SW usually cracks up in the middle back and the LS cracks lower. Keep the seat support straps snug. When it tighten mine I usually throw in a halve hitch under the buckle to keep it from slipping. Thank you for the reply, Roger. My seats have cracks top and bottom. I will make sure the back will not touch anything in the future, it seems to be a pronlem. Niels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerg1000 Posted July 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 Hello all, Thanks everybody for your input. While the seats are very comfortable for this class of aircraft, I think "Flight Design" might have to think about changing the design slightly to make it more durable and stronger. My understanding is also that there should be nothing under the seats for safety reasons. Niels CTLS VH-NKO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Meade Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 Stronger seats will probably mean more weight or more cost or both. I'm going to patch mine, check the seat strap adjustment and see if I can get along that way. Even playing games with the cushions is a weight issue if one carries it far enough - and it can be a matter of safety if fire is involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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