Entering the pattern

[Ed Cesnalis]

Our uncontrolled field is a little unconventional in that pilots prefer 27 over 9 and routinely do strait-ins for 27. This never bothered me much If I'm not approaching from the east I just enter the pattern and extend my downwind if the strait in traffic doesn't have a whole in it where I need one to turn base where I normally would.

 

Things have changed a bit in the last 2 years when I took a break from flying, for one we have scheduled service with Bombardier Q400s.

 

Yesterday I got lost in the traffic on approach, I was on a 45, 8,500 ( TPA = 8,000 ) 3m NW.

 

Now 3 different aircraft make initial calls and they are all on downwind but from 11,000 to 13,000'. I couldn't see anyone visually or on my PCAS. Things didn't feel right so I made a call and departed the pattern and announced that I would land #4. The Q400's pattern was about 7-8 miles and he flew it low and outside of where I was and I followed him in and landed #3.

 

I was mixing it up with planes flying what seemed to be over 200kts with patterns that begin a mile above TPA. What would you say? I feel like saying: '2 Charlie Tango, Right Downwind 27 @ 8,000' abeam mid field, other aircraft on downwind please anounce your position including altitude and let me know if you are in front of or behind of me, that is if you see me at all.'

 

BTW these guys are clearing 13,000'+ terrain within 3 miles of the field.

[N89WD]

Join the crowd, only here in AFO we have the Milloinairs with G4's and down. Same thing clearing terrain at 12K within 5 miles. Our TPA is 7100 but that is for slow movers. The fast movers usually are with SLC until SL fades out at 9000' they use the GPS approach to 34. Due to the aircraft type setting of our strip, the VFR fast movers use 8.5-10.5 but all have tcas. they have respectfully call out my situation, or theirs with me in sight. It might be from your hiatus but short approaches from a left downwind might be good, you know chop power abeam the numbers and a hard left from a tight pattern. If the big's arn't playin - talk to them then esclate. There will be a published TPA for those fast movers.

[airhound]

Our uncontrolled field is a little unconventional in that pilots prefer 27 over 9 and routinely do strait-ins for 27. This never bothered me much If I'm not approaching from the east I just enter the pattern and extend my downwind if the strait in traffic doesn't have a whole in it where I need one to turn base where I normally would.

 

Things have changed a bit in the last 2 years when I took a break from flying, for one we have scheduled service with Bombardier Q400s.

 

Yesterday I got lost in the traffic on approach, I was on a 45, 8,500 ( TPA = 8,000 ) 3m NW.

 

Now 3 different aircraft make initial calls and they are all on downwind but from 11,000 to 13,000'. I couldn't see anyone visually or on my PCAS. Things didn't feel right so I made a call and departed the pattern and announced that I would land #4. The Q400's pattern was about 7-8 miles and he flew it low and outside of where I was and I followed him in and landed #3.

 

I was mixing it up with planes flying what seemed to be over 200kts with patterns that begin a mile above TPA. What would you say? I feel like saying: '2 Charlie Tango, Right Downwind 27 @ 8,000' abeam mid field, other aircraft on downwind please anounce your position including altitude and let me know if you are in front of or behind of me, that is if you see me at all.'

 

BTW these guys are clearing 13,000'+ terrain within 3 miles of the field.

 

Charlie Tango: Is that way throughout the day? I guess not enough traffic to warrant a tower? I just started using TIS and the traffic I wasn't aware of around local B and D spaces and VORs is an awakening.

[Ed Cesnalis]

Is that way throughout the day?

 

It is mostly dead. Even if it is 1 or 2 aircraft approaching if they fly high speed descending patterns they don't mix well with normal patterns and it makes me feel vulnerable.

[Jim Meade]

I've not flown the plane in question, but I'd bet it's Vref is 120 kias or less. Some twins have a faster approach speed than a light jet. E.g., a Cessna 401 will approach at 115 kias or so (blue line or above) and many Citations have Vref of 100 or so.

 

That I'm saying is that subject to more precise information, treat the turboprops and small jets as similar to a medium twin.

 

What I'm getting at is that if you're familiar with working with twins, you are not so far off from working with the truboprops and small jets. In fact, they will have higher TPAs and bigger patterns, fro the most part.

 

In your position, given the scenario you described, I'd fly a tight pattern and put the plane down and get off as soon as safe. Of course, the bottom line is people have to be safe and work with each other. The big guys will not go around for you if they can help it. They will take advantage of your flexibiltiy if you let them. A go around on even a light jet is likely to cost $100. Don't push it if you don't feel comfortable.

 

If you are in the pattern with an overcast, expect to see the bigger planes popping through and announcing about 7-10 miles out straight in. They just got off with Center or Approach and may not be aware of your situation.