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ADS-B Vs Flight Following


Dan Kent

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With ADS-B out I can only think of a couple advantages of Flight Following:

1) someone to talk to if something goes wrong

2) transiting class B, C and D airspace (if they happen to be in your path)

 

Are there any others?

 

I've used flight following and don't really like using it, as I always have a difficult time getting responses from the controllers. I usually end up doing a radio check after about 10 minutes of reporting in to the next controller without a response. Also without a response I won't know the frequency or when to switch to the next controller.

 

I was just thinking that with the information that ADS-B transmitts that if something were to go wrong the computers would have a very precise position until I got too low for coverage.

 

I don't have much experience and even less cross country experience, so please educate me.

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Well, I'm an old iconoclast. Curmudgeon. When I was flying bigger iron I filed IFR nearly every flight, so I'm used to and comfortable being "in the system".

 

I think the "system" is quite different from region to region. Some ARTCCs are so busy they can't or maybe even don't want to help you. Others are very obliging.

 

I'm a flat land flier. Flight Following desn't really get me all that much, even on long trips. I have only one radio in my plane, so if I'm on Flight Following, I can not play around listening to ATIS/AWOS/ASOS or Flight Service Stations.

 

I think I may use flight following if VFR in the mountains or other rugged terrain. I'm interested in reading what the mountain and desert boys say.

 

As far as flying in Class D,C, and B airspace, tell me what good comes of talking with ATC? I'll tell you what will happen - they'll reroute you at their leisure, even when it is not necessary as far as you're concerned. Even if you are flying 500' over a Class C airport, you are subject to being given vectors so they can get their commercial traffic out smoothly.

 

So, what do I do if I don't talk to anyone? I listen. On any trip, no matter how long or how short, I am usually tuned in to either the nearest local airport if I'm down low or to the ARTCC if I'm up higher or to Approach or Tower if I'm near a controlled airport.

 

What good does that do? If there is any traffic at all, one gets a sense of what is going on around one. It can help with situational awareness.

 

Does one trust ATC to call out traffic to an aircraft on flight following? Separation for VFR aircraft is on a voluntary basis. They have to separate IFR but don't have to separate VFR. VFR are see and avoid (well, everyone is in the last analysis) and ATC will have you on the low end of the totem pole if they are busy working IFR traffic.

 

ADS-B will get you a lot of information but you won't know about other aircraft in all cases, either. You won't know about the Ercoupe down low with no radio, but maybe ATC has painted him as a primary. You won't know about the glider at 16,000 circling if he has no transponder, and many - maybe most - don't. He might be a primary target to ATC. You won't know about the crop duster, but ATC probably maybe doesn't know about him,either.

 

I think you are going to get a lot of "comfort level" responses based on each person's training, flying environment, equipment and experience. I bet there is validity in nearly every perspective.

 

I'd rather have ADS-B and listen to the ARTCC than to have flight following. Flight following is a tool that I'll use when it makes sense. It usually doesn't for me, but sometimes does.

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Well said, Jim, with one correction:

 

ADS-B will get you a lot of information but you won't know about other aircraft in all cases, either. You won't know about the Ercoupe down low with no radio, but maybe ATC has painted him as a primary. You won't know about the glider at 16,000 circling if he has no transponder, and many - maybe most - don't. He might be a primary target to ATC. You won't know about the crop duster, but ATC probably maybe doesn't know about him,either.

The ground station uplink includes primary radar targets so a full ADS-B implementation will 'see' everything ATC does.

 

Dan -- I view flight following as another set of eyes and your ADS-B setup accomplishes this task. You should also be able to keep in contact, listen only, with the appropriate center/airspace/tower by using the 'Nearest' function of your GPS.

 

I'm also with Jim for transiting airspace -- just contact the appropriate Class B/C frequency directly when 20nm out from their airspace.

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I think I may use flight following if VFR in the mountains or other rugged terrain. I'm interested in reading what the mountain and desert boys say.

 

Here in the eastern Sierra Nevada radar services are not generally available for 2 reasons.

  1. The mountains block the radar
  2. The mountains block the comms

Actually there is radar coverage and line of sight to center around here but you have to climb above 13,000' to enjoy it.

 

Deserts tend to be big and remote and behind mountain ranges creating a lack of coverage there as well.

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In California we have a lot of military airspace to transit (both MOAs and restricted), and not just B, C and D, so having flight following makes life easier. Its true you can always fly around those areas, but that makes for a much longer trip.

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Thanks everyone. On my last cross country I chose not to use FF and called the center for a MOA to see if it was active. It was not so I flew through it. On the return trip I could never get center to answer, even though I was trying 2 frequencies. I may have been too low at 4,500', so I flew around it, added 3 minutes to my flight according to Foreflight.

 

Dave, I see what you mean about the ADS-B providing almost too much information. My airport has a tower but no radar. Returning a couple of weeks ago I was listening to the transmissions and a skycatcher took off and was headed in my direction. The tower alerted me to the traffic and I kept looking but never did see it, but watched it all the way with the ADS-B link. It was 200' feet above me and probably a mile north of me. There were also about 5 other planes on the screen as this was a beautiful Sunday afternoon.

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Yup, entire SouthWest is littered with MOAs... 'fly through them all the time. See & Avoid. Once, we had a couple of F16-18s screw with us... kind of circled us twice inverted... scared the bejesus out of me, as I was flying (before I'd had any training), and the pilot was asleep.

 

It sounds like ADS-B, even in it's current form, provides more traffic info than I thought... question- will it show military traffic?

Tim

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I'm not sure that this article answers the question, but it looks like the military is planning on equiping at least some of their aircraft with ADS-B out systems.

 

http://www.ainonline...future-airspace

 

Also, Zaon's new product the MX 1090 ADS-B receiver says that it will also identify military traffic, but am not sure what their basis for this statement is.

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FF appears to have significant regional differences, something I had not thought about until this thread came up. My experience with X country flights in Michigan, Ohio, Illinois and indiana has resulted in timely and consistent FF interaction. The FF in Illinois included flight thru O'Hare airspace on a trip to Oshkosh from Michigan and this went well. We were routed along the Chicago lakefront. A couple of shots of the city follows:

post-24-0-08699000-1361544994_thumb.jpgpost-24-0-31952000-1361544997_thumb.jpg

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Regional differences are real. Last year on a flight from Islip (Long Island) to Fla. FF offered a short cut, right over Kennedy. Beautiful view of Manhattan and the Hudson. Down here in Fla. all the students (many with poor English) trying to learn how to fly IFR (and communicate) seem to frazell ATC and I have had lots of "unable at this time" responses to requests or hand offs. I don't blame the controllers, for me it's just part of game here in warm flat land.

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