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Dynon 6.0 not right according to FD


Doug G.

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I just got off the phone with FD. I was told that I should not have updated my Dynon to 6.0, that it should only be updated via the FD site. (I would still be at 3.0 if that was the case I believe.) They say I need to update my POH (Interesting he used that term.) and...this is the biggie...they will be coming out with an update to make the screens rearrangable in a few days but, if you have updated to 6.0 you will not be able to use it since it will be based on 5.1 and you cannot go back to 5.1!!!

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"

For the IFR pilot, SkyView's new autopilot features include VNAV, IAS Hold, mode sequencing, fully-coupled approaches, a Flight Director with single cue (v-bars) or dual cue (crosshairs) presentation, and more. These new features complete the system by building on existing modes such as heading hold, GPS ground track hold, altitude hold, and control wheel steering.

 

VFR pilots can cruise in comfort – without a steep learning curve – thanks to a new alternative set of simplified autopilot controls built into SkyView. This new feature streamlines the autopilot modes to those pilots use most: HSI+ALT for following navigation sources such as GPS flight plans, and TRK+ALT for flying in the direction and at the altitude you choose. Each of these modes activates with a single button press.

 

Simplified/Expert autopilot control selection is accomplished via a setup menu option so pilots can try both and see which works best for their flying style.

Dynon has also added a new LEVEL button that can be activated from the either SkyView’s menu or an external button. When pressed, the autopilot will immediately return the aircraft to straight and level flight. Pilots can also set a “minimums” alert to enhance situational awareness when flying an approach."

 

http://www.dynonavionics.com/docs/news_version_60_08April2013.html

 

Here is the link to the Dynon Support Forum:

 

http://dynonavionics.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl

 

Vansairforce also has good discussions on Dynon:

 

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/index.php

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Evidently this is a regs issue. Talking to Dynon confirmed that. We are not supposed to upgrade the Dynon w/o FDs approval since it involves a change in the POH. This is something I was not aware of - I thought th software would be required to be up to date. I agree it is strange.

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One of the documents gurus may weigh in. Yes, there is a change to the POH, but I bet Doug or Tom will say that usually the instrument company provides a supplement. I bet if you bought a Garmin 430W you'd just get some pages to add. Maybe with SLSA that route isn't available.

I'm ELSA so this isn't an issue.

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Dynon allows manufacturers to have locked/custom configurations. This, presumably, allows the manufacturer to verify that a specific software update is compatible with their product. I only know of two that do that -- FD and Van's RV-12. I'm guessing that FD's manual is written such that it overrides Dynon. Whether this is within the regs is another question :)

 

My Sting's POH defers to the other vendors (Rotax, Garmin, Dynon) manuals with the Condition Checklist having an item that each installed item is on the current vendor software version.

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As a pilot you can update data bases, but not firmware. Updating the firmware does become a regulatory issue. I'm not even sure as a mechanic I can legally do the update, because it might be considered a major repair. They can only be done by an approved repair station or the manufacturer.

 

(4) Appliance major repairs. Repairs of the following types to appliances are appliance major repairs:

(i) Calibration and repair of instruments.

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The problem is if you do the update, you won't be able to use the FD update which applies to 5.1 not 6.0.

Roger, has FD ever put out a Dynon update?

They and Dynon are saying that FD has to provide the updates because it requires a change in the POH to be in line with the new software. We are talking about primary instrumentation so I understand where they are coming from, but neither FD or Dynon have stated these updates cannot be used in anything I have seen.

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Hi Tom,

 

You should be able to do the update. It isn't a calibration or a repair. It's just a software update.

 

Roger, what is the purpose of the update? Fix bugs = repair, add features = alteration. If the FAA allows this I think they would have said so just like the database updates. It may just be a case of technology being ahead of the regulations.

 

I did dig a little deeper, as a light sport repairman you may be able to do the updates as long as it is not a FAA cerified device. I on the other hand can not because of 65.81 "but excluding major repairs to, and major alterations of, propellers, and any repair to, or alteration of, instruments". Maybe 65.85 gives the privilege back for light sport airplanes, I don't know.

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When I talked to the FAA, (simple terms) repair meant broken or needing to be fixed, possibly inop and calibration meant more like calibrating a transponder encoder because it it's off or calibrating the air speed or altimeter because it was off. We are only doing software. Updates to software doesn't mean it is broken. It is functional and can be left with that operating software if you wanted. Most software updates are not a mandatory issue where broken and calibration issues are. This may be more of a semantics issue verses a real technical issue.

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Roger, a mechanic can not do an update in a standard category airplane. After reading and checking we can do the update as long as the equipment is not certified by the FAA and installed in a aircraft with a special airworthiness certificate in the light sport category.

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Pretty nuts that you have to have a maintenance rating just to update firmware. I'm with Adam, experimental looks appealing when you look at the goofiness of the regs. I don't really see any downside to it if you plan on keeping the airplane a long time...resale is the only unknown. Does anybody have real world data on how much of a hit a CT might take in resale as an ELSA?

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I would think the resale would not be affected because an owner of an ELSA can take the 16 hour course then do all of their own work including signing off inspections.

 

If SLSA then the 120 hour course is required.

 

The only drawback is if the buyer wants to use the plane for instruction. Can't do that with an ELSA unless the FAA grants you authority through a document called a LODA. That stands of letter of deviation authority or something like that.

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Hi Doug,

 

Your right that everything should come through the aircraft Mfg, but that doesn't happen or it's late in coming. Unfortunately everything doesn't come through the LSA Mfg's. FD states to follow the Rotax manuals and comply with Rotax bulletins.

I believe the Dynon Skyview is a unique case because FD locked out the software and screen changes, but it doesn't apply to the older Dynon's. If this were the case what about GPS updates, the oil temp fluctuation fix that was posted. Have you seen all the Rotax SB's, SA's and SI's posted on the FD site? Did you ever see the Garmin SL40 recall (that had been out almost 1 year)? Actually I think it got posted after I called or emailed them later on.

Have you seen any Dynon older generation up dates on the FD site? (p.s. by the way there is a new 5.5 software update coming out for the older generation Dynon's soon).

 

Bottom line is do what you need to do to stay up to date and current unless Fd post otherwise, i.e. the Skyview update..

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I would be surprised if Dynon is shipping a special 5.1 version of firmware on the Skyview units they send to FD to install in the most recent CTLSi's. Being in a similar (build and ship electronics with firmware) business it is painful and complicated (and costly) to be shipping hardware out the door with different versions of firmware. So is there anyone out there that has recently picked up a CTLSi and can tell us what version of firmware they have?

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Dynon told me that they do what FD asks for. The CTLSi

has rearrangable screens. I do not know what version it is, but I unfortunately assumed that Dynon's 6.0 would provide that functionality. Evidently there is a trick to when you wait for FD, and when you don't.

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