Air Holes Exterior to Filter (CTSW)

[mocfly]

What?

 

[Roger Lee]

The oil filter that the Rotax document was referring to was a Champion. It's a terrible filter, but that was only an example and all other non Rotax filters fall under the SB.

[FlyingMonkey]

Probably not relevant, but would the Magnuson-Moss act apply?

 

http://en.wikipedia....ss_Warranty_Act

 

It applies to "consumer products" and warranties.

 

In part,

 

"Warrantors cannot require that only branded parts be used with the product in order to retain the warranty. This is commonly referred to as the "tie-in sales" provisions, and is frequently mentioned in the context of third-party computer parts, such as memory and hard drives."

 

Eddie, I don't think that MM applies, since it only relates to "equivalent" parts. If a part is missing key features (like internal valves on an oil filter) I think an engine manufacturer is completely within their rights to disallow their use under warranty, especially if engine damage could be the result of their use. MM is meant to keep manufacturers from having a monopoly on parts when other suitable parts exist in the secondary market, not to allow the use of substandard parts and require warranty service on the resulting damage.

[Roger Lee]

MM would work for things like oil and coolant, ect...as far as the warranty. Rotax knows they can't regulate that and don't try. They do give suggestions or recommendations, but not swapping out parts.

[FastEddieB]

It was just a thought.

 

In general, I do not believe a manufacturer can lock you in to their parts of service centers to keep a warranty in force, unless those parts and labor are given for free. That's part of the act to prevent them from taking advantage of you.

 

Would apply to a car or motorcycle or whatever - I just wasn't sure once you got into aviation if it still applied on any level. I did not see any specific aviation exclusion in the act, so I suppose it would depend on whether a ROTAX engine was a "consumer device" or not.

[FlyingMonkey]

Would apply to a car or motorcycle or whatever - I just wasn't sure once you got into aviation if it still applied on any level. I did not see any specific aviation exclusion in the act, so I suppose it would depend on whether a ROTAX engine was a "consumer device" or not.

 

I had to (successfully) argue MM on a Ford Mustang GT I used to own when I added some non-Ford performance parts. I finally got Ford to agree they could deny warranty claims directly related to failures of the non-Ford parts but they could not blanket void the entire vehicle warranty.

[Doug G.]

That makes everything as clear as mud. Unapproved parts are OK as long as they don't really matter, except the service letter says you can damage your engine, but FD and Rotax don't really think it is an issue so go ahead because the engine is built so well it won't make any difference, but if it does we told you it would!!!

I'd like to see how that comes out in court. Sounds like a lot of butt covering going on. And...they used it because they had it left over!??

[mocfly]

So for the next 25 hours you are flying an unawirworthy aircraft!

 

[Roger Lee]

Bottom line guys,

 

Just use the right parts and you'll never have to worry.

 

CTLSi,

 

Remember Lone Mnt. and FD are not Rotax so they can say what ever they want and dealers and other Mfg's are wrong and give bad advice all the time. Email Rotax and see what they say. I guarantee you that Tempest filter by pass is well below what is required for Rotax. How do I know this, I spent months researching filters and calling every oil filter Mfg I could. The paper was published some time ago. Lone Mnt. and FD are passing info based on partial facts. I know I did the same thing 8 years ago until I did the proper research. If that filter is okay why not use car oil in the engine. it will run or gap the plugs at .038, it will run, but what is better.

Using a filter with too low a by pass for that specific engine will not hurt it today, just like smoking won't kill you after one cigarette, but use it over and over and the disease sets in and can cause damage. Ask these guys about the check valve inside the Rotax oil filter and see what they say and what effects not having it could cause and about the different anti drain back membrane. Their lack of internal workings is a cause to be careful on the advise.

With a filter costing only $.57 cents less why would anyone like Lone Mnt. use that off brand filter and if they have been to Rotax class which I know they have why would they use it when they were told not to and it is in writing?

 

Better for .57 cents to error on the right side. Take what some non experts have to say with a grain of salt or do the research needed to get to the bottom. It took me 4 months to get to that bottom because 96% of the people, even in the business really don't know. You have to talk to engineers of each company. the Q&A guy you get on the phone just reads it off the paper in front of him.

[FlyingMonkey]

Sounds like a lot of butt covering going on. And...they used it because they had it left over!??

 

Yeah, I wonder what other "left over" parts they have in their bins waiting to be used wherever they will fit...

[Roger Lee]

I'm not sure for .57 cents anyone would buy it unless they just didn't know better.

[207WF]

KN 33-2092. Cost me $33 in 2010. I think there is a fleet wide LOA. WF