Ed Cesnalis Posted August 19, 2013 Report Share Posted August 19, 2013 I'm glad you did. As you know we have talked at length about landing near stall speed as opposed to landing fast. You just shut down another such discussion with your statement "I'm sorry I ever used 100 mph" I am glad you brought it up because in all of our discussions I have never made the rebutting point that 'you still have to slow down' and received a reply. This thread can be very short but at least 1 of you 'fast' guys should provide a reasonable response. Here's what i said in the flat tire thread: If you land fast ( 100 mph ) then you would have enough energy to pull up steep to several hundred feet AGL, the reaction to your controls would be very precise and you wouldn't have to worry about a gust ruining your alignment or drifting you off of the runway. So you took a lot of risk and it worked out you are on the runway at 100mph or whatever high speed. Now you have to slow down, and soon your controls will be mushy but your energy will be high enough that a gust can ruin your alignment or drift you off of the runway. You took the risk but the payoff didn't last, you still had the wheels on the ground with mushy controls and enough lift being produced where a gust can change everything. In addition you have the risk of a flat at 100mph, ...etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N89WD Posted August 20, 2013 Report Share Posted August 20, 2013 Is this another rant? It seems if someone has a different angle on landing, flying, whatever, you get a hard on for them, or the whole thread. We all know you live at the highest airport, fly the most dangerous mountains. Just take a pill, should be able to have a conversation without having a come apart. Just saying. Becoming a CFI may be a rewarding path to display your knowledge of aerodynamics and energy management. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Meade Posted August 20, 2013 Report Share Posted August 20, 2013 Is it a rant to say an accurate thing over and over? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted August 20, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2013 The point I made has never been replied to, not even once. Its not a rant, we have discussed this issue a lot but the most relevant point, IMHO has never been part of the discussion. While I have been frustrated that there is never a response the latest discussion brings up a whole new point. As a community we are prone to flat tires yet the consensus remains to land fast. The danger presented by flats has been pointed out. That dichotomy remains undressed as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted August 20, 2013 Report Share Posted August 20, 2013 Sometimes a thread like this will elicit immediate feelings of deja vu... ...for the old timers. But there are always those new to the forum that may have come here to see what's new and current, and unlikely to use the "search" function to bring up old threads. We're all adults here. Those in the camp of landing "at approximately stall speed" can point to the FAA Private Pilot Practical Standards as evidence that all private pilots should have been trained to that standard. Those in the camp of "a few extra knots and maybe some power" fall well within the sphere of personal preference. But I will continue to hold that leaving FAA guidelines behind should only be done with very good reason. But anyone is invited to stand near a runway at nearly any GA airport and watch a bunch of landings to see how many pilots end up way fast and flat on touchdown. And we're not talking "a few extra knots". This usually has no ill effect, but for newbies, and to avoid repitition, please see my "A Cautionary Tale Of Two Landings" thread here: http://ctflier.com/index.php?/topic/1888-a-cautionary-tale-of-two-landing-accidents/page__hl__%2Bcautionary+%2Btale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandpiper Posted August 20, 2013 Report Share Posted August 20, 2013 Eddie - I live on an airport. My windows overlook the runway. I see it all the time. Hot arrivals, dragging it in with power, no flap take offs where I swear they are going to drive to destination instead of fly. People that enter the pattern every imaginable way regardless of who is already in the pattern and which runway is "active". On the wrong frequency, etc. Fortunately these represent only about 10% of pilots, but............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted August 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 Is this another rant? It seems if someone has a different angle on landing, flying, whatever, you get a hard on for them, or the whole thread. We all know you live at the highest airport, fly the most dangerous mountains. Just take a pill, should be able to have a conversation without having a come apart. Just saying. Becoming a CFI may be a rewarding path to display your knowledge of aerodynamics and energy management. A rant? please read again, its a relatively new question in our fast vs slow discussion. (What happens when you slow down, are you not just postponing the vulnerable point?) It may not be brand new but it has never been answered in these discussions. On top of that a new question is brought up and that is 'Due to a large number of flat tires, shouldn't we recognize that situation as a signal that slow is safer than fast?' Due to the proportions of our members that fall into these 2 camps we have arrived at a 'consensus' that everyone is right, all techniques are valid, can't we just get along? In aviation many things are black and white. I suggest that fair questions like mine above are bettered pondered and answered than attacking me. Primacy, the state of being first, often creates a strong, almost unshakable, impression. This is another question that has not been answered, the damage done with the wrong mind set from the beginning cannot be undone. It remains an important question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N89WD Posted August 22, 2013 Report Share Posted August 22, 2013 I understand and, I'm sorry for the attack. It struck me, at first read, as a new started thread on an old subject. It seems if the thread isn't going the direction you like it to, you just start another thread on the same subject. At any rate I should not have replied to your question the way that I did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted August 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2013 No worries WD. If I start a new thread it is to preserve the subject of the old one. I hate it when I start a thread and the subject gets changed and my question never gets addressed. Is there someone in the fast camp that will answer my questions without saying everyone is right or using the word kumbaya? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Meade Posted August 22, 2013 Report Share Posted August 22, 2013 Afton looks like a nice place to visit. I wonder if I've been through there. Where are you from Jackson Hole? That's beautiful country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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