Admin Posted October 10, 2013 Report Share Posted October 10, 2013 Some of you may have seen a posting here for a while on Wed concerning a lawsuit. We took it down because it seemed like crazy talk. In essence, a pilot (CTsw) was on a cross-country flight that encountered serious headwinds. Fearing that his flight fuel planning didn’t consider the winds, he stopped short of his destination, only to confirm he was very low on fuel. Figuring he had enough for, maybe, 30 more minutes of flying, he took off trying to make it home. Several minutes later, he crash-landed in a field, fuel starved. Luckily, there were no injuries reported. Our pilot friend has, allegedly, filed a $10 Million lawsuit against Flight Design, the place he bought his aircraft from, his flight instructor, and several un-named John Doe’s…. for not specifically telling him he shouldn’t fly when you are very low on fuel! He also states the FAA curriculum for Light Sport Pilot doesn’t include that a “Light Sport Pilot know or be trained (on) fuel starvation to the pilot’s engine…”. So, I guess we can presume the FAA could be one of the John Doe’s. Some of the monetary damages are to cover “attorney fees to protect himself against governmental investigations regarding his piloting”. First, it shouldn’t have to be said, but: Don’t fly when you are very low on fuel! Always plan for a healthy fuel reserve. Take into consideration that dual wing-tank airplanes may have uneven fuel flow. Consider that, during very low fuel situations, flight attitude or slipping can contribute to fuel “slosh” and possible fuel starvation. It’s very sad that this lawsuit, with merit or not, is going to cost several people a lot of time and money. A few years ago, my company and I were involved in a crazy lawsuit with absolute no merit. I think there were nine pages of names of people involved in the lawsuit. Like this suit, it was done by a lawyer with lots of time on his hands and, essentially, no cost involved to him. My, totally frivolous, lawsuit was eventually dismissed, yet cost our small company over $60K. The crazy attorney was sanctioned and disbarred for two years. 'Any wonder why aviation is a rich man’s game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted October 10, 2013 Report Share Posted October 10, 2013 That does suck big time. Too many in society will not simply "man up" and accept the consequences of their actions - every little failure must be someone else's fault. A lesson for instructors is to teach from a comprehensive syllabus and document each and every subject area covered. And a minor quibble with our "pilot friend's" complaint... Fuel starvation generally means fuel was available, but through mismanagement coud not find its way to the engine. Fuel exhaustion is when the last bit of fuel is gone. I think the latter applies in this case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runtoeat Posted October 10, 2013 Report Share Posted October 10, 2013 Reading this gives me a sick feeling in my stomach. Those who file frivolous lawsuits are lower than whale sh*t on my list. For a pilot to file a lawsuit blaming others for his own stupidity ranks even lower than this. Many lawyers are pilots and this means many judges are too. It is hoped that this matter goes before someone who understands how frivolous this is and it is resolved quickly and without time and money spent. Is there any information regarding the lawsuit so those who might be interested could look it up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted October 10, 2013 Report Share Posted October 10, 2013 The suit uses photos of fuel stains and contends that substantial fuel was on board at the time the engine ran out of fuel and the claim that the plane was not maneuvering. The implication is that if the plane is not maneuvering that all of his 30 minutes of fuel should have been available to the engine. The suit contends that a design flaw was hidden and that flaw seems to be one that all similar high wing aircraft share, if you fly with one wing trailing some fuel will be vectored towards the wing tip and never get to the engine. Fast Eddie and me provided warnings to this guy, his mindset was dangerous, he advocated breaking rules and doing dangerous and stupid things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted October 10, 2013 Report Share Posted October 10, 2013 Fast Eddie and me provided warnings to this guy, his mindset was dangerous, he advocated breaking rules and doing dangerous and stupid things. Is this someone we know??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted October 10, 2013 Report Share Posted October 10, 2013 Is this the incident in question? http://www.kgw.com/news/local/Plane-crashes-in-Sisters-pilot-from-Tigard-survives-222076231.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted October 10, 2013 Report Share Posted October 10, 2013 Yes that's Ussyorktown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted October 10, 2013 Report Share Posted October 10, 2013 Google is amazing. Daniel Bernath = USSYorktown? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted October 10, 2013 Report Share Posted October 10, 2013 Sigh... http://www.aspecialdayguide.com/bernathresume.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted October 10, 2013 Report Share Posted October 10, 2013 Daniel Bernath = USSYorktown? Yes The argument about him flying large rescue dogs in his CT without a restraint comes to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted October 10, 2013 Report Share Posted October 10, 2013 design defect and deadly fuel starvation flaw = drain 1 wing dry and fly with the wing with fuel trailing ( slip ) and the deadly defect will bite you too. You don't need a FD aircraft most any Cessna will work fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted October 10, 2013 Report Share Posted October 10, 2013 As does his intransigence on the issue of using GPS groundspeed on landing. I hope the defense attorneys have access to his posts here. They are quite damning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted October 10, 2013 Report Share Posted October 10, 2013 Bernath alleges that he was not properly trained. From forum discussions we determined that he was likely not trainable. One of our current members had a similar flight with headwinds playing a part and the flight terminating in a fuel emergency. He too stands fast blaming the design, perhaps he can use this as fair warning that fuel management has to be mastered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted October 10, 2013 Report Share Posted October 10, 2013 Oh, THAT guy. What a douche. He's a lawyer by trade, and has shown awful judgment on the forums, so the fact that he'd throw something like this out to cover his own incompetence and terrible decision making should surprise exactly nobody. I guess his suit is not going to bring up the reg that says he has to have 30min additional fuel beyond his intended destination, yet he took off with 30min fuel TOTAL... I'm assuming this suit will go pretty much nowhere, but it sucks because it forces all the defendants to "lawyer up" at their expense, not to mention the taxpayer dollars used to run the court to process this complete waste of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted October 10, 2013 Report Share Posted October 10, 2013 As does his intransigence on the issue of using GPS groundspeed on landing. I hope the defense attorneys have access to his posts here. They are quite damning. not hard to find: http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2654&view=print Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted October 10, 2013 Report Share Posted October 10, 2013 Advocating tax deductions for sport flying?? Post subject: Quote: Yorktown, do you fly animal rescue as a sport pilot? where/how do you transport the dog in the CT? is it in a carrier? does another person fly with you to keep an eye on the dog? (assuming you have enough useful load.) how far did you fly? how long are the missions typically? (wondering how it's more feasible to fly rather than drive the animals to their new homes.) I ask only because it seems a good reason to fly and to spread a positive aviation message. That's ussyorktown to you buster. (kidding) Dog is my copilot. She sat on her side. She also put her head on the middle console, which I cannot abide. So I put my cursed IPad straight up on her side so it blocked her from working the throttle. (She doesn't even have a student's license). Flew from Pendleton Oregon to Cottage Grove. About two hours. You pick and choice your missions. go to http://www.pilotsnpa...2cbcf3bf780744d for opportunities to be a do-gooder. As for Maggie, all car rides fell through. She had spent two weeks in a dog pound and I was told that she was so stressed (she almost starved to death as her master hanged himself and she wore her nails and pads down to nothing trying to get through the door) that she would likely die if she had to go through another weekend at the pound. I was told that they drugged her to keep her calm and this is common when you take a dog to the vet. We also had a muzzle on her. She nipped me 3 times but did not break the skin. I tried to pet her on the head and she didn't feel that I knew her well enough. (Don't touch me sailor-you didn't even buy me dinner!) You could have a dog or two in the cargo hold if they have those soft sided dog carriers. I've seen other pics of pilots who let the little dogs roam around and look out the window. The dogs don't seem to know that they are 8500 feet high. They just like the view out the CTSW window. Many pictures of dog rescues and the interior of planes at http://www.pilotsnpaws.org My dog slept once we were airborne and I am told that almost 99% of them fall asleep because of the vibration. She farted several times and I was afraid that she was dumping in my airplane but no-it was a many mere gaseous discharges. When at 8500 feet she appeared to be be having hickcups but I was over the mountains and could not descend. She lived through it. Quote: Pilots n Paws has come through for several of our Pet Adoption Network ACDs in the last couple of years – a two to three-hour plane flight is so much better for these critters than 8 to 12-hour ground transport with multiple vehicle changes. We thank all PnP pilots! on pilots n paws website Hey moderator; why not move these posts to a new topic BE A DO-GOODER, FLY AND GET TAX DEDUCTION FOR IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted October 10, 2013 Report Share Posted October 10, 2013 You have mad skilz. Can we find the thread on using GPS as a landing aid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted October 10, 2013 Report Share Posted October 10, 2013 Hey FD legal! google phrases like this to find this guys prior posts. They show his thinking and why he isn't a safe pilot. 'ussyorktown dog rescue ctsw sportpilottalk.com' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted October 10, 2013 Report Share Posted October 10, 2013 Disclaimer: gps landing advice below is dangerous, do not attempt, use IAS when landing. You have mad skilz. Can we find the thread on using GPS as a landing aid? https://www.google.c...xJMPwqQG-94HwBg FastEddieB: (Sun Jul 08, 2012 10:05 am) I'll try to put this delicately... Since we're now in the "Safety Corner", my concern goes beyond someone using a groundspeed display as a landing aid, or to use GPS groundspeed to avoid stalling. Many experienced pilots and instructors here have already deemed these actions unsafe, and they are - for easily seen reasons. The flight instructors here have all been taught to look for certain "Hazardous Attitudes" in our students, other pilots and even ourselves. They are: Macho, Anti-Authority, Invulnerability, Impulsivity, and Resignation. ussyorktown's response to the advice here falls, I think, into the "Anti-Authority" attitude. The snarky and sarcastic comebacks are not indicative of an open mind that really wants to learn. Similarly, his reluctance to engage at least one instructor here (me) by responding to his questions seems to me to not be conducive to learning. And pilots should always be learning, whether they have 50 or 5,000 hours. I took the time to engage and put forth questions and thought experiments that might have led ussyorktown to that "Aha!" moment that instructor's yearn to provoke in their students. If that effort is for naught, well, so be it. All I can do is try. ussyorktown: (Sun Jul 08, 2012 4:31 pm) I have received no response as to why I should view the GPS opinion as to my air speed IN CONJUNCTION with my view out the window, my quick check of the speed guage in the airplane, my own experience and habits on seeing what a good set up is, etc. As a 62 year old man successful in many fields I am willing to listen to all. When I get conflicting opinions I then will make a determination based on common sense. I know that teaching students how to do spins and recover was just a peachy keen idea but after losing too many pilots this carved in stone skill was dropped. I say, we have a new tool. You haven't tried my technique (giving the IPad a 1% input into the landing) but are very quick to condemn it. As this has gone from an amusing discussion to something else, I must say there is a reason why 3/4 of the students who start drop out, why general aviation is getting older and older etc. I have found most old aviators quite willing to pass on the knowledge they have acquired through experience and when even more senior aviator advised them. I've never encountered a flight instructor or senior pilot that I was stubborn, stupid, bull headed because I came up with an idea that tentatively works for me. (One instructor who really couldn't teach how to land a CTSW and could not get the idea across did say, "I think you should instead take up boating." But I switched instructors and in 2 lessons was doing very nice touchdowns). I don't care as I have always faced opposition in every new endeavor and become an innovator and controversial in whatever field. Eventually my crazy ideas are accepted and duplicated in every field I have been in during my 6 decades. http://www.aspeciald...rnathresume.htm I don't accept anything by a rubber stamp because an authority figures says "do it that way" without thinking about it. I'll go up Monday with the evil IPad http://rlv.zcache.co...83bhar2_400.jpg and play around with it. My 3 landings with the evil IPad had gave me the confidence I needed to get way low and slow for a perfect kiss the runway landing. WTF is wrong with that instead of porpoising down the runway and looking like a pirouette-ing Paris Hilton on a hotdate? http://4.bp.blogspot...ton Bentley (12).jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted October 10, 2013 Report Share Posted October 10, 2013 Found it. I forgot that was over on sportpilottalk.com - I thought it was here. http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=2574&hilit=Gps+and+landing+ussyorktown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted October 10, 2013 Report Share Posted October 10, 2013 "Fear not. I shall never be mentioned in a NTSB report." - ussyorktown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted October 10, 2013 Report Share Posted October 10, 2013 "Fear not. I shall never be mentioned in a NTSB report." - ussyorktown Priceless! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted October 10, 2013 Report Share Posted October 10, 2013 "This will be bad news for my former flight instructors who signed me off." - ussyorktown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted October 10, 2013 Report Share Posted October 10, 2013 Fear not. I shall never be mentioned in a NTSB report. - ussyorktown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted October 10, 2013 Report Share Posted October 10, 2013 I wonder how many CT pilot we could get to march into that court as witnesses to say this is total BS? Twenty? A hundred? Conversely, I wonder how many other CT pilots would appear as witnesses supporting his claim of a "deadly design defect"? Even one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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