FlyingMonkey Posted November 19, 2013 Report Posted November 19, 2013 Even after I had the sender replaced, my oil pressure has still been intermittently giving me problems. Today after flushing the coolant from my engine and refilling, I ran the engine to check for leaks. It started at 70psi, then settled back to 45psi. As the engine warmed the pressure sank until it was reading about 28-30psi at 2100rpm. On run up to 4000rpm the pressure dropped to 20psi and stayed in that range for the 30 seconds or so I kept the revs up. I have been suspecting the wire termination on the sender ring terminal, the wire has pulled away from the plastic stress relief and it feels a little loose. I went to pull the wire off to inspect it and the terminal would not unscrew, it just turned but didn't loosen. broken or stripped apparently. So screw this, I ordered the Lockwood remote sender kit and the two post sender. Is there anything I need to know to tell the installer about it? Does the line need to be filled with oil first, or does the small amount of air in the system not hurt the engine? Where have you guys grounded the sender? Stuff like that.
FastEddieB Posted November 19, 2013 Report Posted November 19, 2013 Andy, I applaud both your inquisitiveness and your gumption. But maybe another trip to Dahlonega may be in order?
Anticept Posted November 19, 2013 Report Posted November 19, 2013 Even after I had the sender replaced, my oil pressure has still been intermittently giving me problems. Today after flushing the coolant from my engine and refilling, I ran the engine to check for leaks. It started at 70psi, then settled back to 45psi. As the engine warmed the pressure sank until it was reading about 28-30psi at 2100rpm. On run up to 4000rpm the pressure dropped to 20psi and stayed in that range for the 30 seconds or so I kept the revs up. I have been suspecting the wire termination on the sender ring terminal, the wire has pulled away from the plastic stress relief and it feels a little loose. I went to pull the wire off to inspect it and the terminal would not unscrew, it just turned but didn't loosen. broken or stripped apparently. So screw this, I ordered the Lockwood remote sender kit and the two post sender. Is there anything I need to know to tell the installer about it? Does the line need to be filled with oil first, or does the small amount of air in the system not hurt the engine? Where have you guys grounded the sender? Stuff like that. Do NOT fill the line with oil. It works on air pressure, just like the fuel sender. The remote sender fitting has a tiny tiny orifice that goes on the engine, and take it to the firewall where the fuel sender is. If you get a longer bolt, you can even mount it to the same spot on the firewall.
FlyingMonkey Posted November 19, 2013 Author Report Posted November 19, 2013 Might be Eddie. If putting a new ring terminal on the wire and relocating the sender does not solve the issue, I'll have to have a Rotax guy really investigate. But if that work does not solve the issue, I will have to conclude it is not safe to fly and find somebody to make a house call to Winder. I think Tim from Dahlonega will do that.
FlyingMonkey Posted November 19, 2013 Author Report Posted November 19, 2013 Do NOT fill the line with oil. It works on air pressure, just like the fuel sender. The remote sender fitting has a tiny tiny orifice that goes on the engine, and take it to the firewall where the fuel sender is. If you get a longer bolt, you can even mount it to the same spot on the firewall. Ha, I don't have a fuel sender (no FP gauge in my plane). If the sender works on air pressure, why does oil come out of the fitting on the engine when the stock sender is removed? Is the remote sender unit a different type?
Anticept Posted November 19, 2013 Report Posted November 19, 2013 Look at the sender. It too has the tiny orifice. It only needs a tiny bit of movement to actuate the sender.
FastEddieB Posted November 19, 2013 Report Posted November 19, 2013 But if that work does not solve the issue, I will have to conclude it is not safe to fly and find somebody to make a house call to Winder. I think Tim from Dahlonega will do that. Tim has a tool van and will travel.
mocfly Posted November 19, 2013 Report Posted November 19, 2013 Andy, Are you running with UMA gauges?
Anticept Posted November 19, 2013 Report Posted November 19, 2013 Huh. I swear my line is still filled with air. I need to check that!
FlyingMonkey Posted November 19, 2013 Author Report Posted November 19, 2013 Thanks Roger. I won't have the installer fill the line if it's not a problem, I just didn't want to risk getting air in the valve train, as you have said often that can cause "Bad Things". Interested in your opinion Roger, does this still look like a sender/wiring/gauge/ground issue to you, or something more involved like a tired oil pump?
FlyingMonkey Posted November 19, 2013 Author Report Posted November 19, 2013 Cool thanks, I'm trying to follow your mantra of "eliminate the easy stuff first".
FlyingMonkey Posted November 19, 2013 Author Report Posted November 19, 2013 Andy, Are you running with UMA gauges? I don't know who makes them. They are the small factory gauges. I think my airplane was originally an all analog base model, with the D100 added at the Dealer (Airtime Aviation in Oklahoma) and the primary flight instruments retained as backups.
Runtoeat Posted November 20, 2013 Report Posted November 20, 2013 Andy, my original engine mounted oil pressure sender was causing the same gage readings as yours. Now have 75 psi at start and constant 45 to 50 psi after warm up. You'll ask yourself why you didn't go with the remote mounted sender sooner.
FlyingMonkey Posted November 20, 2013 Author Report Posted November 20, 2013 Andy, my original engine mounted oil pressure sender was causing the same gage readings as yours. Now have 75 psi at start and constant 45 to 50 psi after warm up. You'll ask yourself why you didn't go with the remote mounted sender sooner. Thanks Dick, I sure hope that's the case, this thing has been a basket case on oil pressure since day one, it's on it's third sender, it was replaced right before it was delivered in June, and then once again since...the last one lasted about a month. I'm thinking the wire connection might be weak too, so that will all get beefed up at the same time.
mocfly Posted November 20, 2013 Report Posted November 20, 2013 Andy, I would make up a new db9 connector and run a single white wire to the pressure sensor signal post and run a new single wire from the db9 connector directly to the central grounding point located on the intake manifold. If you have your schematics it will show the pin outs. It took about 2 hours when I installed mine, and I still made a video of the line routing from the pump back to the gauge just to make sure it was ok. I think the video is located in a post along with Roger's input. Let me know if you doesn't have your prints and I will post the pin out that I got from UMA. I was told by a pretty reliable source that much of the problems we have with the wiring is directly related to the amount of sales that FD had and it ramp up of the factory.
cdarza Posted November 20, 2013 Report Posted November 20, 2013 I too still have same issues. Pressure will indicate all the way to yellow, if not red. I either shut down and restart (which usually gets the gauge back in the green) - or flip the ALT and BATT switches off - then on again. I have the remote mounted sender which i hope to install soon and rid me of this annoying little problem.
Ed Cesnalis Posted November 20, 2013 Report Posted November 20, 2013 Have you guys already installed the new style oil pressure pluge screw, spring and oil pressure regulator cone (mushroom). If not you should. Some of these may be caused by the old ball bearing and spring rubbing on the case housing. Cost is about $75 and it takes 15 minutes to install. We did that recently along with a dedicated ground. It fixed my issues.
FlyingMonkey Posted November 20, 2013 Author Report Posted November 20, 2013 Have you guys already installed the new style oil pressure pluge screw, spring and oil pressure regulator cone (mushroom). If not you should. Some of these may be caused by the old ball bearing and spring rubbing on the case housing. Cost is about $75 and it takes 15 minutes to install. Not even sure if I even know about this...how can we tell what we have installed?
Ed Cesnalis Posted November 21, 2013 Report Posted November 21, 2013 My old style was a simple ball in a spring and had scoring on the spring. The upgrade was more complex.
FastEddieB Posted November 21, 2013 Report Posted November 21, 2013 Andy, I bought one of the new style, and have yet to install it (if it ain't broke...). I guess I might need to if I ever get near 1,500 hours, but you'd be welcome to try it to see if it helps. If it does, you can just score me a replacement when you can. Though they aren't terribly expensive, so it might make sense just to go ahead and buy and install one.
mocfly Posted November 21, 2013 Report Posted November 21, 2013 Eddie, Why not wait until 1999hrs and then install it?
FastEddieB Posted November 21, 2013 Report Posted November 21, 2013 Eddie, Why not wait until 1999hrs and then install it? My impression was that, without the mod, the overhaul limit was 1,500 hours. That said, I'm Experimental, so I don't think it matters from a legal standpoint. IIRC, leaving my existing "ball" in place met with Roger's blessing when he was casting an eye on my Sky Arrow last fall, and replacing it was an option. Again, using the philosophy of, "If it ain't broke..."
FlyingMonkey Posted November 21, 2013 Author Report Posted November 21, 2013 I thought my engine is marked as having a 2000 TBO, so maybe it's already installed? I don't know what to look for so I have no idea if it's there or not. In fact, I'm still not sure exactly what the darned thing does. I hear cones, springs, balls, etc...is this it? : :huh: Thanks for the offer Eddie, but if it's something that will help tame the oil pressure I'll just spring for one.
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