Roger Lee Posted August 22, 2010 Report Share Posted August 22, 2010 Here is an article from AOPA by Arlynn McMahon talking about the Sport Pilot certification process http://www.aopa.org/sportpilot/?WT.mc_id=100820eflight&WT.mc_sect=fex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airhound Posted August 22, 2010 Report Share Posted August 22, 2010 Roger see my questions Italisized Bolded. Additionally, Part 91, Appendix D, Section 4 provides the list of Class B primary airports in which sport pilots are not permitted. Does this mean a Private Pilot without medical can't go into these? Even a certificated sport pilot is required to carry his logbook or other evidence of endorsements. Does this mean a Private Pilot w/o medical has to carry same documents? Traditionally, flight school managers contact their local FSDO for answers pertaining to training situations. However, the FAA Light Sport Branch, located in Oklahoma City, oversees all aspects of sport pilot training/examining and light sport aircraft. We found the Light Sport Branch to be the best source for answers, as FSDO personnel are not always up to date with the finer points of sport pilot issues. This is a big no kidding...My FSDO doesn't seem to be as conversant as I'd hoped about Sport Pilot. Now I see why. It's because it's condoned. The FAA's Light Sport Branch talks about the notion that the holder of a private pilot certificate or greater automatically holds sport pilot privileges. That means, as an example, a certificated commercial pilot who chooses not to renew his medical certificate may operate an LSA with a valid driver's license so long as he complies with the limitations of his sport pilot privilege. Do limitations include not flying in to certain Class B airspace if previously mentioned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandpiper Posted August 22, 2010 Report Share Posted August 22, 2010 I asked AOPA these questions. According to them, if you have a private or higher, but drop your medical, you do not need the logbook endorsements nor do you need to carry your logbook. The fact that you have the higher rating is your "endorsement". If anyone knows otherwise, I would like to hear it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted August 22, 2010 Report Share Posted August 22, 2010 I asked AOPA these questions. According to them, if you have a private or higher, but drop your medical, you do not need the logbook endorsements nor do you need to carry your logbook. The fact that you have the higher rating is your "endorsement". If anyone knows otherwise, I would like to hear it. i agree on the higher level certificate being your endorsement, but don't i need my logbook to demonstrate a current BFR? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted August 22, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2010 Hi Guys, You are right. If you had a Private and let the medical go you do not need to carry your logbook. The private that was obtained before has those endorsements embedded. You only need to carry a logbook if you only had a Sport Pilot from the beginning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandpiper Posted August 22, 2010 Report Share Posted August 22, 2010 I don't think there is any requirement to carry your pilot logbook for proof of a flight review. Like your aircraft logbooks, you don't carry them but must be able to produce them in a reasonable timeframe. If you are concerned about it, make a copy of your logbook page showing the flight review and carry it with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airhound Posted August 22, 2010 Report Share Posted August 22, 2010 Additionally, Part 91, Appendix D, Section 4 provides the list of Class B primary airports in which sport pilots are not permitted. Does this mean a Private Pilot without a medical can't pilot an LSA into or thru these specific airports? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercity Posted August 22, 2010 Report Share Posted August 22, 2010 "I don't think there is any requirement to carry your pilot logbook for proof of a flight review. Like your aircraft logbooks, you don't carry them but must be able to produce them in a reasonable timeframe." FAR 61.51 (i)(3)(5) requires a Sport Pilot or Sport pilot instructor to carry his or her logbook, or other evidence of required authorized instructor endorsements on all flights. "Additionally, Part 91, Appendix D, Section 4 provides the list of Class B primary airports in which sport pilots are not permitted. Does this mean a Private Pilot without a medical can't pilot an LSA into or thru these specific airports?" If you are a Private Pilot without a medical, then your privledges and limitations would be that of a Sport Pilot so therfore you would not be able to operate in those areas listed. Just as you are not allowed to fly at night or above 10000msl as a Private Pilot (without medical) under Sprot pilot rules. The limitation would be removed as soon as you had a valid medical and were operating as a Private Pilot in a LSA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandpiper Posted August 23, 2010 Report Share Posted August 23, 2010 Eric, I can easily carry a copy of my logbook page showing my latest flight review but, is the flight review considered an "endorsement" as is the greater than 87K or class B which are specifically called endorsements? I am not remembering the flight review ever being called an endorsement as the others, including tailwheel, are for sure called endorsements. Probably splitting hairs here. I trust the AOPA gave me good advice regarding carrying the logbook for 87K/class B purposes. I don't have these endorsements as I am reliant upon my advanced ratings to cover those bases. But, the flight review issue I'm not sure of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted August 23, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2010 Hi John, So long as you had a private and just let the medical expire then you don't need the logbook for the BFR. If you're a sport pilot then it's all in the book you have to carry anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercity Posted August 23, 2010 Report Share Posted August 23, 2010 That is correct, since you have higher ratings you do not need to carry documentation showing your currency/proficiency or privileges. You would only need to make them available if ask for by the FAA or law enforcement upon reasonable request. The requirement to carry a logbook is reserved for student, recreational and sport pilot's and sport pilot instructors. A copy of the endorsement page should be adequate if you do not want to risk your logbook. Im not sure that a copy of a flight review endorsement would be required since it is not really a limitation/privilege endorsement, rather a currency requirement, but if I was a Sport pilot I would have it just in case. Better to have to much info when it comes to those grey areas! Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airhound Posted August 23, 2010 Report Share Posted August 23, 2010 What are the basic differences between Sport Pilot and Recreation Pilot..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercity Posted August 23, 2010 Report Share Posted August 23, 2010 Ranger6 Recreational pilot was the FAA's first attempt at a Sport pilot certificate before there were LSA's defined. You can operate aircraft with up to four seats and up to 180hp, but with only one passenger. You cannot operate complex aircraft with retracts or constant speed props. Some of the same limitations apply such as no night, or flying above 10000'msl, but the rec pilot has to get training and endorsements to fly beyond 50nm and in B,C and D airspace. You also have to have at least a 3rd class medical. So other than getting to fly something like a 150 or 172 there is not much advantage to it, since you have to have medical you might as well move on to Private. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runtoeat Posted August 23, 2010 Report Share Posted August 23, 2010 I'll add some information that might help? The Flight Examiner who gave me my check ride for Sport Pilot and signed my certificate said to carry a copy of his endorsement which he placed in the back of my log book after my check ride. This is a slightly abridged version: I certify that (my name) has met the training and endorsement requirements of 61.309, 61.311 and 61.313. I have determined him proficient to act as PIC of ASEL (AP-5) Flight Design CT light -sport aircraft. Signed (examiner's name and certificate #) Per the examiner's suggestion, I scanned this endorsement and made this into a wallet sized card which I carry with my FAA Light Sport pilot's certificate. He said I do not need to carry my log book with me as long as I carry this endorsement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N78BZ Posted August 24, 2010 Report Share Posted August 24, 2010 FAR 61.301 (2010 AIM, ASA version page 116) has a table that clearly specifies that a higher licensed pilot with no medical does not need to obtain the special endorsements for 87+ knots or for Class B-C-D airspace, but you are still bound by the other sport pilot limitations. Concatenating the applicable entries in the table, it says: "If you hold only a U.S. driver's license, and you hold at least a recreational pilot certificate with a category and class rating, then you may operate any light sport aircraft in that category and class, and you do not have to hold any of the endorsements required by this subpart, but you must comply with the limitations in section 61.315." It is interesting to note, however, that one of the often overlooked limitations that does still apply if you do not have a medical is 61.315( c )( 3 ) which prohibits such pilots from flying 'in furtherance of a business." That wording is much more strict than the wording that applies to private pilots with current medicals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acensor Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 ....... You only need to carry a logbook if you only had a Sport Pilot from the beginning. FWIW: About a year ago I spoke and emailed with one of the AOPA aviation lawyers specifically about this issue. He was explicit in saying that a Sport Pilot does not have to carry his/her logbook. He said the sport pilot does have to carry their required endorsements --- Vh (endorsement to specifically be permitted, separately, to either fly an LSA with a stated max level speed of under 87 knots, or over 87 knots, or one of each kind), and if flying in class B, C, D the pilot's controlled airspace endorsement. But copies of those endorsements, he said, meet the requirements. I leave my logbook at home usually and have copies of my endorsements in the pocket where I keep the required flight docs (airworthiness cert, etc.) Alex Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 I am a Sport Pilot, and have 87+ and B-C-D endorsements. It may not be technically legal, but I don't carry my physical logbook. Instead I carry photocopies of my endorsements to show that I'm legal. It might not be compliant with the letter of the law, but complies with the spirit and it makes me feel much better to have the actual logbook safe at home. What happens if your logbook burns up or flies out the window as a Sport Pilot? Do you have to find another instructor and get "re-endorsed" for the 87+ knots and B-C-D airspace? Forget that, my instructor has moved to Florida, and I don't like doing the same work twice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Downs Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 Roger the link to the article is not working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted January 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 It was. I don't know what happened to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 A student pilot must carry his logbook, but a sport pilot must carry his or her logbook or other evidence of required authorized instructor endorsements on all flights. This is from CFR 61.51. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 Dependent on the outcome from an NTSB investigation after a crash where a fire occured, you would probably be losing your license anyway (if you survived). Your call, but at least you know you aren't following the rule. I don't follow you on this. I bet if I could produce a logbook with valid endorsements, within 24 hours of a crash, precisely because it did NOT burn up in the wreckage, I would face no enforcement action at all. CERTAINLY not a revocation, at most I'd expect a 30 day suspension, and I'd be surprised if I got that. Besides, if the plane burns up I can claim the logbook was in there! These logbook rules are very minor. A lot less important than, say, violating a Presidential TFR or Class B airspace without authorization. Those things happen all the time and pilots get a short suspension if it is their first violation. Would you expect to have your ticket revoked if you got ramp checked and didn't have the operating limitations for your airplane on board because you had been reviewing them and left them in your hangar? A Sport Pilot not having their physical logbook in the airplane is about the same severity of a violation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 As an aside, I have all my required documents, both personal and aircraft related, scanned into an iPhoto album that syncs to both my phone and iPad. That way, if anything is misplaced, at least I can show a copy of the document. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 My understanding is the documents and ID must be original, they cannot be copies. Homeland security is watching you know. It's also convenient to log each flight right after they happen. My logbook has endorsements penned into pages inside the logbook, they are not separate documents. I think the reg Tom posted refutes that they must be originals for a licensed Sport Pilot. They must be originals in the case of a student pilot working toward a sport rating. Endorsements are typically written into the logbook, most logbooks have an "endorsements" section in the back of the book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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