FlyingMonkey Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 Hey guys... Even though I replaced my non-tundra main tires in August, the new ones are almost done already. They are wearing on the outside, which I know is typical for the CTSW gear because they have a crazy amount of factory camber. I have flipped the tires around on the rims once already, but especially the left tire is not almost worn out on both sides. I'd be surprised if I have more than 50 landings on these tires. They are really showing an insane amount of wear, IMO, and the rounded profile of the tire is not helping. I have ordered the Matco wheels and brakes from Roger in order to try to solve this, as according to Roger the Matco setup can be shimmed to remove the excess camber. However, as fast as these tires wear I'm not confident that these tires will not continue to wear abnormally fast. Here are the tires I'm currently using: http://www.desser.com/store/products/400%252d6-6-PLY-AERO-CLASSIC-TIRE-TT%7B47%7DTUBELESS-%2814-x-4%29.html I'm about to order some new tires to swap on when I have the wheels & brakes done, and I'm wondering if I should step up to an 8-ply tire. I know the ride will be rougher and need a higher pressure, and Roger said he doesn't recommend it, but I'm wondering if anybody is running an 8-ply standard (non-tundra) main tire and has an opinion on this? Here are the tires I was looking at: http://www.desser.com/store/products/400%252d6-8-PLY-AERO-CLASSIC-%2APREMIUM%2A-TT%7B47%7DTUBELESS-%2814-x-4%29.html Those also seem to have a flatter cross-section, which is seems to me would help them wear more evenly. I trust Roger's advice, and absent any other information will stick with the 6-ply, but I'm just soliciting other opinions before I open my wallet. I don't want to spend all this money and still get excessive wear. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 Hi Andy, There isn't anything wrong with the 8 plys so long as you know they need more pressure and have a stiffer ride. This means checking the tire pressure a little more often, especially on the nose. The Matco's will take care of this because you can get rid of the excessive camber and have them ride flatter. The two tires you have URL's to are the normal ones we use for the smaller tire planes. Your brakes are on order so hopefully they will be there soon enough not to have to worry about new tires unless the present ones are really bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted January 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 Hi Andy, There isn't anything wrong with the 8 plys so long as you know they need more pressure and have a stiffer ride. This means checking the tire pressure a little more often, especially on the nose. The Matco's will take care of this because you can get rid of the excessive camber and have them ride flatter. The two tires you have URL's to are the normal ones we use for the smaller tire planes. Your brakes are on order so hopefully they will be there soon enough not to have to worry about new tires unless the present ones are really bad. Thanks Roger...the current tires are bad enough I will change them when I do the brakes, so I don't have to take everything apart twice. I was only going to change the mains and leave the nose tire alone since it has no wear problems. If I leave the nose wheel as a 6-ply and put 8-ply on the mains, do you think that might mitigate some of the ride harshess? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 Very little. The mains are more influential in what your butt feels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted January 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 50 landings on a new set of tires? Yikes... I have 300 landings on my tundras and they still look new. Yup. You have the new gear with better geometry, Matcos from the factory, and the tundra tires wear a lot better from what I hear. Once the Matco stuff allows me to reset the geometry, I should be much better off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 Andy, I really doubt that it is all because of the camber. I would bet that there is a bunch of toe in as well. Installing the Matco wheels and brakes will not solve the problem if you don't shim to fix the toe in too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 An other thing about the toe in is if you roll the airplane forward it brings the wheels closer together making the camber look worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted January 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 Tom, where does one shim to correct the toe-in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 Both the camber and the toe in can be corrected by inserting washers between the gear leg and axle base. Use as few washers as possible. It's a method commonly used all across aviation. It's a LOT of trial and error. To check for toe-in: set the mains on grease plates (two pieces of aluminum with grease between them). Now rock the plane a little bit so that the wheels will find their natural position while on the ground. Take a very long straight stick (piece of pipe, etc, but it needs to be a couple yards long, and it must be STRAIGHT) and set it under the plane and butt it up against the front of both main wheels (you might need a second person to make sure it doesn't move). Take a carpenter square, set it flat against the pipe, and the other end butt it up so it touches the tire or wheel rim. If you have a toe-in or toe-out problem, it will only touch the square in one place, whereas no-toe will simply be pretty close to touching all along the length of the square. Wheel camber is not critical, and is just simply done to adjust where tire tread wear occurs. If it's wearing on the inside of the tire (very common in older CTLS models and older), then you need to shim it so that the top of the tire is pushed out from the fuselage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted January 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 Roger told me that with the original Mac wheel/brake system, there is no way to shim them, which is why I'm getting the Matco setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 We shimmed them just fine . We used thin and wide washers to make sure we spread out the force on the leg as much as possible though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted January 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 We shimmed them just fine . We used thin and wide washers to make sure we spread out the force on the leg as much as possible though. Hmm...can you take some pictures and show me where you shimmed them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 We shimmed them just fine . We used thin and wide washers to make sure we spread out the force on the leg as much as possible though. The CTSW with the Marc wheels is different than the LS. It doesn't use a 4 bolt axle assembly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 Andy, the procedure for adjusting the toe on a CTSW is a little complicated, and there are 2 procedures for fixing it. If you have a toe in problem fixing it might also help with the camber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 Hmm...can you take some pictures and show me where you shimmed them? Doh I keep forgetting the CTSW wheel construction is goofy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted January 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 Doh I keep forgetting the CTSW wheel construction is goofy Bah, you got my hopes up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying C Farms Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 Andy, Remember to check the clearance from the fork on any new tire you put on the nose. When I changed mine awhile back the new dresser would bind on the nose fork, so had to go back to the original tire. BTW I do not notice wear since I operate mostly on sod. You Georgia boys might be putting ground glass in tar and calling it asphalt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted January 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 Andy, Remember to check the clearance from the fork on any new tire you put on the nose. When I changed mine awhile back the new dresser would bind on the nose fork, so had to go back to the original tire. BTW I do not notice wear since I operate mostly on sod. You Georgia boys might be putting ground glass in tar and calling it asphalt. Thanks for the tip. My plan at the moment is to continue using the original style nose tire. It seems to be holding up well; the airplane is at 159 hours and the original tire is still on the nose and appears to have good life left in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 To adjust toe in and out on an SW the proper procedure is to elongate the main bolt hole up and down on the leg receiver and leg. Turn the wheel where you want it. Mark it and then weld a washer in place to keep the alignement of the new hole. Just use Matco's plus you get a total make over which is far better in several aspects over the Marc brakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 There is also a procedure without welding, but it requires some special bushings and tools. Personally I think fixing the toe before installing the Matco's would be a good thing to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted January 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 Ugh, no welding for me...Matco it is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 Ugh, no welding for me...Matco it is! Like I said there is a way with no welding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted January 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 There is also a procedure without welding, but it requires some special bushings and tools. Personally I think fixing the toe before installing the Matco's would be a good thing to do. I hear what you are saying, and if they had not already been ordered, I'd give it a try to save a buck. But since they are already in the mail, and the Matcos have better brakes and easier adjustability, I'm okay with just making the upgrade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Welsch Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 I use 8 - ply 400 x 6 tires on the main wheels (Matco) and have for several years and several hundred hours. I keep them inflated to 45 psi. No issues with the tires or airframe. Little wear noticed to date. I never make full stall landings. I use them for their puncture resistance (goat heads on most of the runways here in NM puncture even 6 - ply tires). I had an 8 - ply on the nose (400 x 6, this is a CTLS) for a while but it was too stiff at that location for my taste. Flight Design approval No. 091019 (19 October 2009) for CTSW/CTLS. PRW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runtoeat Posted January 18, 2014 Report Share Posted January 18, 2014 I made a adapter to hold a laser on my Matco axle to set alignment for installation. Also used laser setup to determine the center of my CT. Take your time and measure twice and drill once when drilling the hole in the axle stub that accepts the bolt from the landing gear strut. This takes a little thinking to get it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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