Service Ceiling

[Olarry]

Does anyone know how high the Flight Design CTLS and CTLSi is capable of ?

[FastEddieB]

18K+. I know for a fact, but that also depends a little on the prop pitch.

Olarry,

 

Service ceiling is more a defined performance parameter - 100 fpm climb at max gross at fwd CG on a standard day.

 

Your question seems to be asking about absolute ceiling, which I think is what Roger is responding to.

[Ed Cesnalis]

Olarry,

 

Service ceiling is more a defined performance parameter - 100 fpm climb at max gross at fwd CG on a standard day.

 

Your question seems to be asking about absolute ceiling, which I think is what Roger is responding to.

 

When you start talking the flight levels in a CT you are going past absolute ceiling in into the realm of wave soaring.

[FastEddieB]

True,

 

As a data point, my Sky Arrow was still climbing a bit the one time I took it up to 13,500' - back when I still had my medical.

[Olarry]

I was looking for a ballpark number the aircraft is capable of. Doesn't matter to me what you call it, point is, it will go much higher than we should go without oxygen.

Also curious if the fuel injected version would show any difference.

[FastEddieB]

Doesn't matter to me what you call it...

I do not know your level of experience, and don't want to come across as preachy, but...

 

...in aviation, correct terminology really helps with communication.

 

Imprecise terminology can lead to confusion, and can even be hazardous in some cases.

[Ed Cesnalis]

Service Ceiling on CTSW is 14,000'

 

The current CTLS and CTLSi should be the same.  As they begin getting more power out of the injected engine I expect it to go up a little.

[Ed Cesnalis]

Rotax states 16K...

 

Service ceiling (altitude where max climb is 100fpm at full gross) is airframe dependent.  What does Rotax call this 16k limitation?

[FastEddieB]

Rotax states 16K, FD 14K. but rarely is a published POH limit the aircraft's or engine limit.

 

True.

 

But for others, its best to remember that if its published under "Limitations", its a legal limit.

 

For the non-turbo Cirrus, for example, 17,500' is published as a "Maximum Operating Altitude" under "Limitations".

 

The plane is still climbing well at that altitude, but that's irrelevant - if Cirrus did not certify it for higher, that's a hard limit.

 

And there may be good reasons. For one, unpressurized mags can begin to miss. ROTAX's don't have that issue, but may have others. In any case ROTAX simply may have only tested to 16,000' for whatever reason. Beyond that, a pilot puts on his or her "test pilot hat".

[Ed Cesnalis]

The CTLS and CTLSi service ceiling at MTOW is density altitude 12,150 (POH 2.9).  The absolute ceiling (or max operating altitude) is density altitude 13,780.

 

At service ceiling climb is reduced to 100fpm.  At absolute it's zero.

 

Is "(or max operating altitude)" from the POH or did you add it?  Absolute ceiling without it would not be a hard limit where max operating altitude ( under limitations heading ) would.  At least that would be my interpretation.

[FastEddieB]

CT, the POH doesn't use the term max operating altitude, that's just another term for the absolute ceiling.

No, it's not, as already explained.

[Olarry]

Don't mean to come across as a SA but again I was only looking for a ballpark number as I couldn't find it anywhere.

 

I agree on proper communication and terminology and above all, flying safe.

 

As far as experience, I have a current medical, Instument rating, 4000 plus hours, never an accident or incident and currently fly and own a twin Cessna 340, A Schweizer 300C helicopter, an experimental Aeroprakt A 20 Varlet with a Rotax 912 that I built 10 years ago and recently took delivery of a new Flight Design CTLSi Jubilee edition.

[Olarry]

As a further comment on the new CTLSi, I love it. What a joy to fly and a lot of fun to!

[Doug G.]

Congrats, and welcome! Where do you hangar?

[Ed Cesnalis]

Yes. It is.  The max operational altitude is the Absolute Ceiling.

 

Absolute ceiling is about performance and max operational altitude might be about a limitation.

[N89WD]

Roger, when flying through FL180 do you file IFR prior to departure, or do you air file?

[N89WD]

Just funnin' with ya Roger.....any drones flying your place with all the border snafu's?

[Ian]

Interesting information - does the FAA put any altitude restrictions on aircraft when using MOGAS?

 

Over here in the UK there is a blanket restriction of 6,000' imposed by our Civil Aviation Authority - this document explains why:

www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/20120117SSL04.pdf

 

I have happily cruised along at FL90 but of course I'm sure I had some AVGAS in the tanks

[FastEddieB]

Interesting.

 

My one foray to 13,500' was on MOGAS, to no apparent ill effect.

[Ed Cesnalis]

Ian,

 

no restriction, we routinely fly our 912s above 10,000' and our 914 above 16,000 using nothing but mogas.

[CT4ME]

Many of us, especially in the West, do much flying above 10, 11, & 12K.  'Never heard of a problem.  Most MoGas here also has Ethanol.  

[FlyingMonkey]

Been running 93 octane mogas with ethanol exclusively since I got the airplane over a year ago, pretty regularly over 6000ft...I have not had any problems.  But from what I have heard, the Euro and Canadian authorities are more conservative than the FAA. 

[Ian]

I bet none of you knew that Shakespeare was a pilot.

 

When they told Hamlet about the 6,000' restriction with Mogas this is what he said

 

And to the manner born, it is a custom
More honor'd in the breach than the observance,

Hamlet Act 1, scene 4, 7–16

 

And he happily flew his CT at FL100 over Elsinore!!

[S4Flier]

Interesting restrictions.  There would be no way in most of the US to adhere to the 20C/68F maximum temperature restriction since the average daily low in Dallas this time of year (for example) is around 25C/77F.

[GravityKnight]

The CTSW I fly, will go higher than you are allowed to go with oxygen, and quite a bit higher than the service ceiling when everything is working for you - or so I was told

 

The CTLS's I fly, with 2 passengers, ~20+ gal fuel, struggle to break 13-13.5k. Obviously running them lighter would help out a lot. But the SW always edges them out - even after they took a little pitch out of one of the LS's prop, it's still gets womped by the SW.