GravityKnight Posted July 24, 2014 Report Share Posted July 24, 2014 I had a 'standard' pair of David Clarks's first, then bought a Pair of David Clark H20-10s as my main set. They have been really good, no complains. Did 7 hours from vegas to co springs and they were just starting to get irratating the last 30-40min. But headsets are one of those things.. that gets the best of me. So for some unknown reason I decided to upgrade. I was going to go for the Zulu 2's but I just can't afford $850 for something that was working fine at $300. However, Lightspeed's Sierras are over $250 less... The band isn't as good, they only do bluetooth phone stuff (no music) but otherwise are quite similar. Obviously the zulu 2's are better, but for a guy who doesn't fly for a living (or as much as I wish I could) I don't think I can justify anything more than these. I also read the Sierras are a little wider. Which is good, I'm 6'4" and a head that goes with it. They will be here tomorrow, flying sunday. I'll give a full report then.. first ANR set for me, not sure what to expect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted July 24, 2014 Report Share Posted July 24, 2014 Karen and I each got Sierras to replace aging 15XL's and have been perfectly satisfied with them. The $250 credit we got for each of the really beat up 15XL's really helped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
procharger Posted July 24, 2014 Report Share Posted July 24, 2014 I bought some called Rugged head sets $99 bucks cant beat um for the price work as good as any I have tried would buy again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercity Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 Been using light speed Zulu's for 6 years. Still my favorite even over the older Bose and newer A20's. I don't think you will be disappointed with the Sierras. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug G. Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 I just upgraded from Sierra to the new PFX version. Impressively quiet. One thing I found out ess that with both headsets you need to know which side of the mic is facing your mouth and keep it close. I thought I was having a radio problem but the microphone was at an angle under the foam cover and it was gathering extra noise - especially noticeable in full rpm climb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Meade Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 Aviation Consumer just came out with an extensive discussion of PFX. It does some things better than any other headset, but the consensus was everyone liked the Bose A20 better overall. The Sierra is good enough that it is a judgement call as to whether to upgrade, according to the testers. I'm still looking for a headset optimized for the Rotax engine. I'm also looking for an objective way to compare headsets against the Rotax sound environment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug G. Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 I talked to Lightspeed and they did some of their testing with Rotax. The other advantage of the PFX is that the software is updateable with a PC so with some time a Rotax specific profile should come out. Personally, I don't know how it could get better and still allow you to hear the engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Meade Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 I have yet to see a response curve for any of the ANR headsets except my Sinnheiser. Their documentation shows that at higher frequencies they rely on passive attenuation. At lower, the ANR kicks in. I'd like to see some test data that shows how all of them line up with the Rotax noise profile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GravityKnight Posted July 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 Interesting.. thanks guys! should be there when I get home from work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandpiper Posted July 27, 2014 Report Share Posted July 27, 2014 Lockwood did some Rotax compatibility testing about 5 years ago. At that point in time they felt that Telex Stratus 50D's did the best job. I bought a pair at that time and I am completely satisfied. About a year ago bought one of the Lightspeed Zulus and I still prefer the Telex over the Zulu. Maybe trying a Zulu 2 would change my mind. Headset satisfaction seems to be mostly a personal preference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runtoeat Posted July 27, 2014 Report Share Posted July 27, 2014 Some thoughts on the Bose. The Bose X hurt my ears after a couple of hours wear. The A20 has larger earcups and this is comfortable for long trips. I found that the cloth covering also put pressure on my ears and removal of this results in pain-free usage. I am average build with average size ears. This system interests me. Wonder if it provides better sound attenuation of Rotax frequencies compared to Lightspeed and Bose? noise cancel headset inserts.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GravityKnight Posted July 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 Got to put about 2 hours on the Sierra's this weekend. Automatic music muting when headsets/radio is in use is pretty sweet! Haven't tried bluetooth, sure it works fine. Sound quality is pretty good. The ANR is interesting. Makes a pretty big difference. Cuts out the lower frequencies of the engine, but you can still hear it well enough to judge engine speed w/o looking at the tach. It's just weird to hit a button, and things just get a lot quieter... almost creepy. I like them. It is a whole different experience now with these several new features.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug G. Posted July 30, 2014 Report Share Posted July 30, 2014 Yup, I always tell passengers, "It is time to make the plane go away." just before we push the buttons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runtoeat Posted July 30, 2014 Report Share Posted July 30, 2014 A friend has a Bell 47 copter. He has steadfastly told me he will never use noise cancelling headphones because he needs to hear the engine in order to stay ahead of his machine. Can't argue with him about needing every advantage he can get to fly a helicopter. He was going up and offered to have me ride along. I brought my Bose headset. During one of the landings, he agreed to try them out. Now, he's mad at me because he's got to figure out where he's going to find the cash to buy a set. He said it's like someone replaced his Franklin engine with an electric motor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul m Posted July 30, 2014 Report Share Posted July 30, 2014 At cruise speed last night, I decided to try flying without any headset. Holy cow, was it loud. Was it my imagination or is it really that loud compared to a 172? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT4ME Posted July 30, 2014 Report Share Posted July 30, 2014 'can't imagine using an old-style radio with speaker and handheld microphone... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runtoeat Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 Paul m, it wasn't your imagination. Might be best not to spend any amount of time in a 172 or a CT without hearing protection if one is concerned about incurring a permanent hearing loss. There's a lot of pilots who unfortunately did all of their flying without headsets and used the handheld mic and cabin speakers. The noise level in your CT wouldn't bother them. They've damaged their hearing to a point that that they wouldn't be bothered by the noise. I have not seen any published noise levels and frequencies of a CT interior during cruise and WOT. It would be good to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul m Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 I learned in a 152 way before headsets were common (much less ANR). I couldnt imagine training in a CT without headsets. Even less imaginable is getting a passenger to come back up a second time if I didn 't give them a headset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Meade Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 Paul m, it wasn't your imagination. Might be best not to spend any amount of time in a 172 or a CT without hearing protection if one is concerned about incurring a permanent hearing loss. There's a lot of pilots who unfortunately did all of their flying without headsets and used the handheld mic and cabin speakers. The noise level in your CT wouldn't bother them. They've damaged their hearing to a point that that they wouldn't be bothered by the noise. I have not seen any published noise levels and frequencies of a CT interior during cruise and WOT. It would be good to know. Flight Design says less than 79.9 dba. http://www.flightdesign.com/index.php?page=product&p=69 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runtoeat Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 Paul m, I'm from the same generation as you that didn't pay much attention to what high sound levels do to hearing. I'm paying the price today. It's ironic that earphone use could ruin hearing. The younger "sony walkman" generation ruined their hearing listening to loud music in their headphones. Jim, thanks for the info. I'd like to get actual sound levels and frequencies inside my CTSW. Wish I still had access to the Aachen Head sound equipment I used while working. It would be nice if someone who does have access to equipment could do a little sound testing. I suspect that the highest amplitude would be firing frequency. 5400 rpm divided by 60 = 90 X 2 = 180 hz. (firing frequency). The propeller may also be a good noise source. 5400 rpm divided by 2.43 = 2222 rpm X 3 = 6666 hz. (propeller 3rd order freq.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FredG Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 Dick, I think you need to divide 6666 by 60 seconds to get Hz. Your calculation for the prop appears to be cycles per minute. What we need is an octave-band sound level meter. I may have access to one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FredG Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 Made sound level measurements in my 2006 CTsw. Sound meter - iPhone 4 with SPL Pro app. Not laboratory grade, but better than nothing. 76 dBA, 2280 rpm, on ground 96 dBA, 5200, full power climb 95 dBA, 5250, full power climb 91 dBA, 5250, level cruise flight, 110 kts IAS 92 dBA, 5250, level cruise flight, 110 kts IAS (duplicate measurement) 92 dBA, 5350, level cruise flight, 112 kts IAS 34 dBA, kitchen table, no appliances in use. Also made octave band measures - highest noise levels were observed from 32 Hz to 250 Hz (~99 dB). At 500 Hz and 1000 Hz levels were 90 and 87 dB. From 2KHz and up, sound levels were 80 dB and below. Note, every three decibels is a doubling of sound intensity (and requires a halving of exposure). NIOSH recommends a maximum of 8 hours per day of sound exposure at 85 dBA, 4 hours/day at 88 dBA, and 2 hours/day at 91 dBA. For sound intensity, dB = 10*log10(observed sound intensity/reference sound intensity). Also, note that hearing loss is cumulative and irreversible. However, regardless of a person's hearing loss, additional noise exposure will make it worse. So, some hearing loss is a poor excuse for failure to use hearing protection. Will try to duplicate with laboratory equipment. fg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 Runtoeat: I think your firing frequency calculations are off. It takes two revolutions to fire a cylinder in a 4 stroke, so it should be 5400 / (60 seconds x 2 revolutions) = 45. Oddly enough, then you multiply by 4 cylinders, which still turns out to be 180 . Also, people are surprised to find out, often props are louder in the cockpit than the engine due to the buffeting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runtoeat Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 Fred G, excellent info. I'm still using an old "dumb" phone and it amazes me what capabilities the new "smart" phones have. I posted this morning and then went flying. While in the air, I realized that I failed to divide by 60 to get revs/second. Thanks for pointing this out. Propeller 3rd order (three bladed prop) would be about 108 hz. and engine firing about 175 hz. @ 5250 engine rpm. Lets see what we have: Wow, 92 dBA at a 5200 rpm cruise in frequencies up to 250 hz. with 500 and 100 hz bands showing levels above 90 dBA. I do not know what the 79.9 dB level FD includes on their website represents but this sound level doesn't seem to match my subjective rating for the cruise sound levels I experience in my CTSW and, if this represents a cruise sound level, falls far short of the objective data you have collected. From the looks of things, one might opt for headphones that will attenuate at least 15 to 20 dBA to get down to safe dBA exposure levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 I'm not familiar with the terminology of "n order". I've seen it, but I'm not an engine person, so I never looked into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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