Partial Flap failure

[MarcF]

Hi Everybody.

I need an advice.

I was cruising oversea at rather constant low speed (150 km/h flap 0° (to take pictures).

I didn'change my cruise speed or my flap setting.

After half an hour, the LED on the pannel  did'nt indicate anymore 00 but - - instead. The flap was effectively on the right position (0°).

When I tried to change the setting, -12, 15, or below the flaps move Ok, and the pannel display also but i cannot go back to 0°. Each time I try, the flaps stay where they are and the display is "- -."

For all the other position, everything is OK except that on the right corner of the display, when I select -12°, a U appears in addition to -12...

When landed, I disconnected the fuse, and even the battery (attempting to reinitialize) but nothing works, I have lost the 0° position.

Any idea about the cause ?

May I fly securely ? I fear that the 15), 30 or 35° settings fail and as my airstrip is only 300m long, landing might be hazardous ....

Thank you for any advice (and sorry for my poor english).

Marc

[MarcF]

Thanks

I don't remember to have those switches.

I will try to find it in the US maint manual as there is nothing in the french one ...

[Anticept]

MarcF, if you are good with electronic component wiring and understand schematics, I can tell you how to wire those switches with off the shelf parts. They are only temporary switches.

[Jacques]

as there is nothing in the french one ...

there is a french maintenance manual.....!!!! ???

...I'll like to have that....

do you have it only on paper or also electronic ?

 

merci

[MarcF]

Hi Anticept,

Unfortunately I don't Know how to read schematics but I found the switches...

Now I have to find how to use them.

Is there a risk to create any malfunction in the other flap positions or to create a right/left flap dissimetry ?

 

Jacques, the "french maint manual" is only a few pages added by the french flight design seller at the end of the instruction manual. It is a very very light paper version for very very basic maintenance.

[Anticept]

The flaps are mechanically linked, so you won't be able to cause dissymmetry.

 

You will likely need a mechanic to assist you in your country. Flap programming needs access through the instrument panel and hooking into the circuitry. The CTLS MM has the instructions and wiring diagrams for programming the flaps.

[MarcF]

My problem is that the closest mechanic is distant from 400 kms...

I found the chapiter on the US MM. I believe I can do hooking.

I understand how to register and memorize the flap position with the control card but I can't understand how to move mecanically the flaps to the zero position for registering it... as the flaps don't go to zero ..

[Anticept]

The two position momentary center off switch acts as a manual override. As you hold the switch up or down, the flaps will move until you release. The manual says how to position them for zero flaps, then you program it in. Rinse and repeat for the remaining settings.

[MarcF]

Understood.

Thanks again.

Do you believe that I can do that only for zero setting or am-I suppose to do it for all the other ?

[MarcF]

thank you again

[MarcF]

Hello again,

You were both right, it was not a big deal to make the flaps' reset but ...

it doesn't change anything.

I have always  -- displayed instead of 00 and the flaps never move to this position (except when overriding with the switches).

All other angles are OK.

By the way I noticed a maximal difference between left and right flap of 0.3° and, for each flap position, a difference between up (-12°) and down position (35°) of 46.2° instead of 47°. Is this a problem ?

Any other idea (of course I checked all the plugs including in the bagage area) ?

[MarcF]

I did with15°.

The point is: I can set 15 be 20°. For that , I switched 15°, and 15 is displayed on the display, then I moved the flaps to 20, I stored the value and 15 became 20, Ok.

But for zero, the display is --, and nothing is stored. I can't see PRG as the display remains "--".

Everything looks like the zero position was not operant and did not transmit any signal into thecircuit. Have you seen specific problems with this switch ?

I believe it guilty as I can' explain why I just lost this position and not the others.

[Brian]

I did with15°.

The point is: I can set 15 be 20°. For that , I switched 15°, and 15 is displayed on the display, then I moved the flaps to 20, I stored the value and 15 became 20, Ok.

But for zero, the display is --, and nothing is stored. I can't see PRG as the display remains "--".

Everything looks like the zero position was not operant and did not transmit any signal into thecircuit. Have you seen specific problems with this switch ?

I believe it guilty as I can' explain why I just lost this position and not the others.

 

Marc,

If you can change the 15 degree setting to read 20, have you tried to set the 0 degree setting to read 1?

[MarcF]

Hi Brian,

 

With the switch turned on the original position for zero degre I can't store any value and I can't read nothing else than -- ...

All the other position are OK.

To continue to fly, I changed 15 in 0, 30 in 15, 35 in 30 and I can catch if required 35 manually by pulling the selector down ahead ...

Off course the display is wrong and this can be a temporary solution only. The point is what am I supposed to replaced ?

The switch is welded to a circuit and I would like to be sure to order the right part.

[Anticept]

Hi MarcF!

 

Your rotary switch has gone bad. The -- means it is receiving no signal through the rotary switch (it can also mean the potentiometer isn't working right, but you are able to move it around the 0 position and that you said it only happens when moving the switch to 0, so that eliminates the pot from the list of issues). They are dirt cheap. It is a Lorlin Electronics CK Rotary Switch: http://www.lorlin.co.uk/PDF/CK.pdf . Find someone good with board level electronics, and they can replace the switch, or as below.

 

You might be able to get away with popping out the flap control board, and CAREFULLY opening the switch if it's a surface contact issue, and give it a little cleaning with super super fine sandpaper (3200+). I had to repair my switch when someone bumped the control too hard and it damaged the mechanism.

 

NOTE: the wiper is VERY delicate, and the ball and detent mechanism has two ball bearings, and is spring loaded.

 

WARNING: THE BOARD IS A 1400 DOLLAR PART. Find someone experienced with electronics to do this. I can't stress that enough, you could make a simple $20 fix turn into 1400+ shipping.

[CT4ME]

The "--" doesn't necessarily mean the rotary, but you can hope that's the problem... le$$$.  I had the "--" display at various times while by circuit board was going bad.  Flew a year while it slowly went bad, and a year after it wouldn't work at all (used manual flaps).  

Be very careful when you take the rotary switch out!  On the back side there is a component that looks like a washer, but actually has a little tab on it.  The tab goes into one of 10 holes.  The position is important as it determines how the switch operates.  Make sure you note the position and put it back together the same way.  If at all possible, make sure the part of the rotary you touch points towards the ground, so the little tab piece won't fall out due to gravity.

[Anticept]

He has 35 degree flaps, so the limiter's tab goes into hole #7 (they are labeled).

 

I strongly believe it isn't really the board going bad because it is very reproducible for one setting, i bet it is just a dead zone on the contact surface. Or it might just be an oxidized joint, in which case a little rosin and heat will fix it.

[MarcF]

Thanks everybody. I bet on the rotary switch too. I tried the elelectric contact cleaner in first but unfortunately it does not seem to be simply dust .. will tell you ...

[MarcF]

Hi Everybody,

 

I still need advices.

Finally the problem seemed to be the card.

I bought a new one (fortunately "only" 300 euros) and I replaced the card. The problem is partially solved.

Now I do have 5 positions for the flaps + 2 (1 manual up and 1 manual down). So I recovered the 0 position and the display is Ok (OO instead of --). But I still have two problems:

 

1/ at the -12 position, the LCD displays -6 as do the US CTLS (in Europa it is -12). Anyway it is not a major concern compared to the second problem.

 

2/ I cant' enter in the setup mode: when I connect the switches SW1 and SW2, and when I use the SW2 up/down switch, the flaps immediately returns in the position selected by SW3. It is not possible to maintain the flaps at the right angle, they always returned at the position set by the SW3 switchn whatever this position is. So I cannot rroperly adjust the flaps. Of course I can't fly like this as all the flaps positions are related to wrong angles. I am 100% sure that my connections are good. Whant can I do ?

[MarcF]

Flaps OperationManual_1.5.pdf

 

Solved.

The manual that was sent  with the board was not the right one. I put in attached file the good one (the relay is  included on the board and not ijn the firewall).

To select European vs US Display of flap position, the manual is inclear. The pin 1 is effectively at the bottom (not on the top) of the board, where the gap is.

Hope this could help another pilot ...

Thanks for all and thanks again to Anticept for its advices.

[Anticept]

Hi MarcF!

 

Thanks for the feedback as well!

 

I'll advise FD that their manual is incorrect about top vs bottom.

[WmInce]

Flaps OperationManual_1.5.pdf

 

Solved.

The manual that was sent  with the board was not the right one. I put in attached file the good one (the relay is  included on the board and not ijn the firewall).

To select European vs US Display of flap position, the manual is inclear. The pin 1 is effectively at the bottom (not on the top) of the board, where the gap is.

Hope this could help another pilot ...

Thanks for all and thanks again to Anticept for its advices.

 

Merci beaucoup, Marc. . . .

[Anticept]

Please be aware that's for new model flap controllers, where the relays are on the controller itself, and the connection is a computer type connection. (It's a DE-9, likely male but haven't taken one apart yet)