sport pilots and Flight Reviews

[207WF]

Signed up for my BRF (ne flight review), and a cautious instructor was concerned about giving me one when I have an expired medical and operating as a sport pilot.  He called the local FISDO office, and was told that he could not give a flight review in the club's C172 unless I have a valid medical.  (This, despite the fact that my log book shows we have done this twice in the past at the same club.)  My bird is down for it chute repack, so I suggested that we do it in my bird when she is back in the air.  He said the FISDO guy said he could not do it in my airplane, either.  I am convinced this must be wrong, and asked him to go back and research it more.  Has anyone else had a similar experience?   WF

[Tom Baker]

The guy at the FSDO is wrong, but that woulsn't be the first time. A sport pilot might not be able to do it in the 172, but a private, commercial, or ATP can even if they don't have a medical. A flight review is comprised 1 hour of flight instruction and 1 hout ground instruction. Like was already said if the instructor is PIC for the flight you are good to go.

[Andy]

(note.  I understand once you achieve a given certification like private, commercial or ATP you are that for life, but you are NOT allowed to fly anything other than ELSA, SLSA without a current medical as PIC)-  True for airplanes but not gliders and balloons.  They don't require a medical to operate as a PIC. (FAR 61.23 9b))

[FlyingMonkey]

 

Also, I am almost certain the 3rd class medical will soon be a thing of the past and no medical will be required for Private pilot privileges, at least in simple single engine aircraft.

 

 

What are you basing this certitude on?  Most of us are in agreement that something will be happening with 3rd class, but very few believe a complete elimination of 3rd class medical is going to happen, at least in this current round of rule making.

 

Just wondering if you have some inside information or a rumor I have not heard about this.

[FlyingMonkey]

(note.  I understand once you achieve a given certification like private, commercial or ATP you are that for life, but you are NOT allowed to fly anything other than ELSA, SLSA without a current medical as PIC)-  True for airplanes but not gliders and balloons.  They don't require a medical to operate as a PIC. (FAR 61.23 9b))

 

Hey Andy, I see in your sig that you used to fly backseat on the Tomcat.  That is pretty darn cool.  How does the CTSW compare to the F-14A?  

[Jim Meade]

(1) Accomplished a flight review given in an aircraft for which that pilot is rated by an authorized instructor and

 

are you rated in the C172?

[Anticept]

3rd class won't be eliminated in it's entirety. If you don't already know, you can't fly on your sport certificate for any other reason than purely recreational. You can't use your certificate to go meet a client, for example, unless you hold a medical and PPL.

 

3rd class will still exist for instructors, etc, but just for going flying or going on vacation, I can see it disappearing for that.

 

As for flight reviews: I had already spoken with OK City about this. You can have a BFR in any aircraft that you are rated for (as in, SEL, Rotary, etc). Pilot certificate level doesn't matter, the rating does. In addition, PIC is unrelated to BFRs. SOMEONE has to be PIC though (which can be the instructor), it just doesn't mean anything in the regs are directly related to BFRs.

[Anticept]

I said nothing about flight instructors.  They are Commercials or ATP's. 

 

You misunderstand, I just said it will continue to exist for non-recreational purposes. I didn't put it solely in a PPL context.

 

Also, private pilots can fly for charity. They can also fly for incidental business. I don't think the FAA is going to remove the 3rd class for those cases.

 

One of the problems right now is whos ass will be on the line if they remove the medical and someone dies. If the media twists it around, like they have with old pilots flying racing planes, you'll have all the soccer moms throwing their arms up. Then you will get politicians looking to set fire under someone so they can bolster their polls.

[FlyingMonkey]

We don't know, do we.  I think the 3rd class medical will be eliminated for ALL Private pilot privileges.  We shall see.

 

Your lips to God's ears.  

[GravityKnight]

lol Andy

 

 

 

 

You misunderstand, I just said it will continue to exist for non-recreational purposes.

 

Common sense tells me this is what will happen. Removing 3rd class for ALL private pilot activities is just too large of a step for the FAA. Then again, common sense and the FAA generally are not used in the same sentence.. so we shall see!

[Andy]

Hey Andy, I see in your sig that you used to fly backseat on the Tomcat.  That is pretty darn cool.  How does the CTSW compare to the F-14A? 

 

My reply:

(1) It's a lot smaller.

(2)  It's a lot quieter.

(3) Doesn't take as much gas.

(4) A lot harder to rig up a tailhook on.

(5) Missiles it can carry are a lot smaller.

http://www.theandyzone.com/flight/images/AndysCT.jpg

 

 

Somehow...it just doesn't look quite as threatening...

http://www.theandyzone.com/iweb/andy/Andys_.Mac_Site/Tomcat_Gallery.html

[FlyingMonkey]

Hey Andy, I see in your sig that you used to fly backseat on the Tomcat.  That is pretty darn cool.  How does the CTSW compare to the F-14A? 

 

My reply:

(1) It's a lot smaller.

(2)  It's a lot quieter.

(3) Doesn't take as much gas.

(4) A lot harder to rig up a tailhook on.

(5) Missiles it can carry are a lot smaller.

http://www.theandyzone.com/flight/images/AndysCT.jpg

 

 

Somehow...it just doesn't look quite as threatening...

http://www.theandyzone.com/iweb/andy/Andys_.Mac_Site/Tomcat_Gallery.html

 

LOL!  Which lands shorter, a CT or a Tomcat on the three wire?  

 

I agree, the CT needs to work on its war face.  

[Andy]

 Which lands shorter, a CT or a Tomcat on the three wire? -  Probably about a tie.

 

From Wikipedia: "Modern U.S. Navy aircraft carriers have the Mark 7 Mod 3 arresting gear installed, which have the capability of recovering a 50,000-pound (23,000 kg) aircraft at an engaging speed of 130 knots in a distance of 340 feet (104 m)."  (Nominal landing weight (daytime fuel reserve 2,000 lbs; night 2500lbs) for an F-14A: ~52,000 lbs; usual approach speed: 133-135 kts.)

 

Ground roll for a CTSW at SL, Std day, Gross weight : 387 feet  (Gross weight: 1320 lbs; usual approach speed: 54 kts)

 

So, go ahead..paint those carrier decks on your local runway and give it a go.  (Just don't fly to the deck Navy style and "forget" to flare...)

[FastEddieB]

Kinda crude, but don't carrier jocks say, "Flare to land, squat to pee"?

[Andy]

You're just trying to get me to pick a fight with the Air Force guys in here...

[thecapt]

I have flown with both Air Force guys, and Navy guys, and here is the difference I've noticed.

 

Air Force guys like to get the airplane in the air and see how fast it'll go.

Navy guys like to get the airplane in the air and see how SLOW it'll go.

 

also: After takeoff, Air Force guys will bark the command, " GEAR UP "

         Navy guys will politely ask " gear up please "

 

And that's a fact...trust me!

 

OH..by the way, I've never flown a CT, so I can't comment on anything here,

but I'm REALLY impressed with the aviation knowledge and experience shown

by all the posters here and that's why I enjoy lurking and reading all your comments.

 

I did takeoff from Sydney, Australia in a 747-400 with a direct 90 degree crosswind

of 50Kts gusting to 55Kts  and it was REALLY smooth .

I probably couldn't do 15Kts in a CT though.

[thecapt]

_{Very perceptive of you to notice that.  That is exactly the point of my comment, although that WAS a standing joke among my Air Force buddies.}

[Andy]

No such thing as dropping it in, per se.  (Chopping the throttle to idle to keep the ball from jumping high close in was not a good idea. If you bolter (miss the wires), the engines are spooled down and take a lonnggg time to spool back up.  Nothing more unsettling than popping off the angled deck on a dark, moonless night and feeling the airplane settle as the engines catch up.) You fly a specific landing angle of attack (15 units in the Tomcat), using power to control glideslope as dictated by the "ball"  all the way to touchdown.  (Meatball, lineup, angle of attack!).  At main gear touchdown, full throttle to protect against a bolter (missing the wires).  You either go around or, once you feel the airplane almost at a stop, pull the throttle to idle and let the wires pull the aircraft back, which kicks the tailhook free.  Taxi as directed to parking or back to the "cat"...

[Chris1990]

That sounds great.But i haven't have a try!

 

 

 

 

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[WmInce]

You're just trying to get me to pick a fight with the Air Force guys in here...

 

Oh . . . you mean one of those para-military guys? . . .