FlyingMonkey Posted September 22, 2014 Report Posted September 22, 2014 "Please please please buy into our very complicated and expensive system," begs the FAA. If enough people don't upgrade soon enough, the FAA will have to push back the deadline or come up with a modified plan, and they know it. They can't just close off huge chunks of airspace to 75% of general aviation.
Doug G. Posted September 22, 2014 Report Posted September 22, 2014 I like the system. For me it is not when or why, it is how. I have a GDL-39 on the way to drop XM, but I want an approved solution for in and out.
FlyingMonkey Posted September 22, 2014 Report Posted September 22, 2014 I like the system. For me it is not when or why, it is how. I have a GDL-39 on the way to drop XM, but I want an approved solution for in and out. I think it's decent too, I just know a lot of people are resisting upgrading, and a lot of FBOs will howl if 75% of GA traffic is not allowed to get to them.
S4Flier Posted September 22, 2014 Report Posted September 22, 2014 L3 Lynx is targeted at under $2K for a certified ADS-B Out (GPS included) might just start the price competition many are waiting for.
Doug G. Posted September 22, 2014 Report Posted September 22, 2014 It is more than five years away, there should be time. IMHO I don't recall, do you need it if you stay out of controlled airspace? If so there are many folks around here who won't bother, their FBOs are at small airports.
S4Flier Posted September 22, 2014 Report Posted September 22, 2014 ADS-B out will be required wherever you need Mode-C.
ralarcon Posted September 22, 2014 Report Posted September 22, 2014 ADS-B out will be required wherever you need Mode-C. And within 30 miles of any Class B, C airspace, even if you are outside the airspace. It is a 30 mile "veil" , creating a new airspace. For me , I'm within Tampa International Airport veil, so its not if, but when, I comply with ADS B out. I'm going to be holding out until there is a reasonable priced ADS-B in/out module for the Dynon EFIS, before I dip in . I already have XM and a GDL 39. XM ,is way superior to the GDL 39. Cheers
ralarcon Posted September 22, 2014 Report Posted September 22, 2014 Useful thread ! http://forums.aopa.org/showthread.php?t=92967 Cheers
S4Flier Posted September 22, 2014 Report Posted September 22, 2014 And within 30 miles of any Class B, C airspace, even if you are outside the airspace. It is a 30 mile "veil" , creating a new airspace. For me , I'm within Tampa International Airport veil, so its not if, but when, I comply with ADS B out. I'm going to be holding out until there is a reasonable priced ADS-B in/out module for the Dynon EFIS, before I dip in . I already have XM and a GDL 39. XM ,is way superior to the GDL 39. Cheers We're probably saying the same thing but the 30 mile veil requires Mode C today (ADS-B didn't add the requirement).
ralarcon Posted September 22, 2014 Report Posted September 22, 2014 We're probably saying the same thing but the 30 mile veil requires Mode C today (ADS-B didn't add the requirement). I stand corrected. Thanks. Cheers
ralarcon Posted September 22, 2014 Report Posted September 22, 2014 There is no way 200,000 aircraft get an avionics upgrade over a five year period given the number of shops available to do those upgrades. The collision course is set. My personal opinion is that the FAA, is going to have to extend the grace period to comply . But in reality, who knows. I'm sure we will know better as the deadline to the mandate approaches. Cheers
FastEddieB Posted September 22, 2014 Report Posted September 22, 2014 I stand corrected... Refreshing! I love both reading and typing those words. Anyway, unless one lived way out in the boonies and did not travel far, ADS-B will be a practical necessity to travel around the country freely. I need to set a reminder to maybe January 2019 to begin worrying/planning. If I'm even still flying then.
Doug G. Posted September 22, 2014 Report Posted September 22, 2014 In ND and most all of MN with the exception of KMSP there is not a class B or C airport.
FastEddieB Posted September 22, 2014 Report Posted September 22, 2014 In ND and most all of MN with the exception of KMSP there is not a class B or C airport.Boonies redefined then! I'm in a pretty rural area, but even my short hop to Knoxville involves Class C, and any flight south can take me into Atlanta's Mode C veil. Flight east and west may involve Asheville and Chattanooga respectively. For me, as I said, a practical if not an absolute necessity.
Jim Meade Posted September 22, 2014 Report Posted September 22, 2014 My uneducated guess is that the FAA will see ADS-B as part of the UAS separation issue and will not back off on the enforcement.
Doug G. Posted September 22, 2014 Report Posted September 22, 2014 My uneducated guess is that the FAA will see ADS-B as part of the UAS separation issue and will not back off on the enforcement.I suspect that is the reason for the conference. Hopefully they will have a UAS policy by then. It is strange to see urgency on the part of the FAA about anything.
Doug G. Posted September 23, 2014 Report Posted September 23, 2014 I don't generally complain, but I fly RC, have a nephew who is waiting for the promised UAS rulings from the FAA (originally promised for this year, but now delayed) in order to take a paying gig from a sports network for his 8 rotor, gimbaled professional camera carrying "drone." Add in the Part 23 re-write that has also taken forever and seeming complicity with the Boarder Patrol's searches, and I believe there is reason to complain. As far as ADS-B I am waiting for a good solution at a decent price. As I said, I like the system.
Anticept Posted September 23, 2014 Report Posted September 23, 2014 I bet the lawyers are busy sitting in a little room arguing over phrasing like "shall comply" and "compliance shall"
FlyingMonkey Posted September 23, 2014 Report Posted September 23, 2014 Boonies redefined then! I'm in a pretty rural area, but even my short hop to Knoxville involves Class C, and any flight south can take me into Atlanta's Mode C veil. Flight east and west may involve Asheville and Chattanooga respectively. For me, as I said, a practical if not an absolute necessity. I don't know... In the year I have been flying my CT, I have never flown into a Class B or a mode C veil...The only time I entered a Class C was when going over the top and had to descend into it for cloud clearance to stay VFR (while on FF), and have only landed at even Class D airports a handful of times. I think you could do fine without ADS-B for 90%+ of LSA flying. I do plan to comply with the mandate because I don't want to limit myself, but in reality the number of times I will need it to stay legal in a year will probably be countable on one hand.
WmInce Posted September 23, 2014 Report Posted September 23, 2014 . . . "I do plan to comply with the mandate because I don't want to limit myself, but in reality the number of times I will need it to stay legal in a year will probably be countable on one hand." . . . Andy, I think within a year of the mandate going into effect, the equipment will be better and cheaper. Until then . . . who really needs it? 95% of my flying is done under a radar environment. I consider it a service I am entitled to and I am never afraid to ask for it. There is a lot to be said for the beauty of a transponder with mode C capability. What in the world did pilots ever do without radar? What in the world did pilots ever do without TCAS? What in the world did pilots ever do without ADS-B?
WmInce Posted September 23, 2014 Report Posted September 23, 2014 They had a lot of heart-stopping near misses. I disagree. There has never been "a lot" of near misses. If you think there has, then show us the statistics on it. Don't get me wrong, I do like the ADS-B capability, I am just not willing to spring for it just yet. I could be wrong, but I think it will be better and cheaper a little later on.
FlyingMonkey Posted September 23, 2014 Report Posted September 23, 2014 I'm with Bill...I think either of two things will happen: 1) Prices will get very inexpensive as new cheaper/better units come out before the mandate and I will upgrade. OR 2) 12-18 months after the mandate, the furor will die down, equipment prices will drop, and I will upgrade. I'd prefer option #1, but really I'm okay either way. BTW, the futurist and inventor Ray Kuzweil has said there are two stages with any technology. At the beginning, the technology is rare, expensive, and unreliable. Then later it becomes ubiquitous, cheap, and reliable. If you think about most technologies (think mobile phones), this is almost always true.
S4Flier Posted September 23, 2014 Report Posted September 23, 2014 It is likely prices will fall on the equipment although it is also possible prices will spike, both equipment and shop time, in a time window surrounding the adoption date. Basic supply and demand. May not be an issue for those that can avoid the regulated airspace. For those that only want compliance, then waiting is the most prudent route. For those that see value between now and the mandate, there are several relatively low cost options to participate in the system. The cost/benefit of 6 years of reliable traffic was worth it to me. If I'm still flying and an owner in another 5 years, then I'll upgrade to an approved system (or upgrade my current box). 6 years of life for a piece of electronics is pretty good in my book.
Jim Meade Posted September 23, 2014 Report Posted September 23, 2014 In addition to an equipment issue, there will be an installation issue. I imagine they have to be certified, just like transponders do now. There may be lines at the avionics shop to get them installed.
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