Transition training

[Guest East coast Jim]

I am considering the purchase of a CTSW, but have only found a place to do transition training in a CTSL. Will CTSL training (landing in particular) be sufficient for me to land a CTSW the first few times?

[Tom Baker]

I have done transition training in a CTLS for someone who was going to flying a CTSW. There is quite a bit in common, but some things are different. If the instructor is familiar with the CTSW and can point out the differences it will help a bunch.

[Roger Lee]

I have flown several of both. I think if you fly one you can step into the other an fly. I didn't feel like there was much difference, but I'm sure there are different opinions. 

I like the softer controls in the SW better and I like that my seat sits up straighter, but that's about all.

[WmInce]

I am considering the purchase of a CTSW, but have only found a place to do transition training in a CTSL. Will CTSL training (landing in particular) be sufficient for me to land a CTSW the first few times?

 

Jim,

 

FWIW, I trained in a CTLS, before picking up my CTSW, for a long cross-country, delivery flight, from San Jose to Tampa.  I did do a little training (mostly pattern work) in the CTSW before starting the trek home.

My experience was, both models flew very similar.

That withstanding, SW seemed a tad bit more pitch and yaw sensitive, probably due to the tail arm being 14 inches shorter than the CTLS.

Also, the SW has stiffer legs, due to the main gear being constructed of aluminum tubes, as compared to composite legs of the LS model.  The composite gear is a little more forgiving than the aluminum struts.  With the aluminum, you will feel everything.

So far, very satisfied with the performance of the CTSW.  On the average, I can carry 80 lbs more payload with my airplane over the new CTLSi.

Any way you cut it . . . 80 lbs. is 80 lbs.

[coppercity]

If you get transitioned into the CTLS, you will be fine in the CTSW.  You will notice some minor differences in handling and touchdown but nothing drastic.  I have lots of hours teaching in both and I'm happy to discuss if you like, just give me a call.

[Doug G.]

Some slight differences in flap settings. Are the stall speeds the same for -6° 0° 15° and 30°?

[Guest East coast Jim]

Thanks everyone for your helpful comments. Eric: I may dial you up for a few pointers.

 

This will be my first aircraft purchase. The aircraft under consideration is at a Cessna dealership in New Jersey (Lincoln Parkl Aviation). Would it be possible / advisable to ask that the aircraft be flown to Flight Design in Connecticut for a pre-purchase evaluation, or is that asking too much of the dealer? Alternatively, should I ask that the dealership provide an Annual and then hire a ferry pilot to relocate the aircraft to my home base in Mass? I would appreciate your advice.

 

Thanks again,

 

Jim

[2FlyAgain]

My CTSW was my first aircraft purchase as well.  For what it's worth...

 

The plane was based within 15 miles of a Flight Design service center.  I elected to have the pre-purchase inspection be done by the Flight Design shop.  They had extensive prior experience with the aircraft as it had been in their flight school for much of its flying life.  This cut both ways.  They knew what to look for and they also would have known what to hide if they had wanted.  I suppose that it didn't hurt that I paid for the firewall blanket installation which brought some extra money to the shop.  

 

It is common that the buyer pay for the pre-purchase inspection.  In my case, the cost the ferrying the plane 15 miles was trivial and nobody sent me a bill.  In your case, I would expect the flight from New Jersey to Connecticut and related expenses to be on your money.  

 

I don't have any experience with the CTLS.  But, I love my CTSW.  Good luck with your new aircraft!

[coppercity]

Some slight differences in flap settings. Are the stall speeds the same for -6° 0° 15° and 30°?

 

Hi Doug,

 

The manuals list the same speeds and from my experience they are pretty close.  The 40 deg flap setting available in the SW has the tendency to drop a wing a bit more in the stall than the lower flap settings.

[Tom Baker]

Thanks everyone for your helpful comments. Eric: I may dial you up for a few pointers.

 

This will be my first aircraft purchase. The aircraft under consideration is at a Cessna dealership in New Jersey (Lincoln Parkl Aviation). Would it be possible / advisable to ask that the aircraft be flown to Flight Design in Connecticut for a pre-purchase evaluation, or is that asking too much of the dealer? Alternatively, should I ask that the dealership provide an Annual and then hire a ferry pilot to relocate the aircraft to my home base in Mass? I would appreciate your advice.

 

Thanks again,

 

Jim

Do you know who had been maintaining the aircraft through out its life, and more importantly most recently? If they were a reputable Flight Design service center I wouldn't have as much concern, but if it just a shop who doesn't know Rotax engines the red flags go up. What I often tell customers if you are sure this is the airplane if everything is OK offer a reasonable amount to have then ferry the airplane to a shop like Flight Design USA for the pre buy inspection with the agreement that it comes off the purchase price of the aircraft. If you don't buy then they keep the money for the trip to cover their expenses. This does 2 things. It shows you are not just a tire kicker, and keeps them from losing money if you don't buy.

[Jim Meade]

My own perspective only;

I would not put much stock in a dealer annual unless the dealer were a Flight Design service center, and even then the dealer has a natural bias to see things in their own interests if there are any questions. Based on my own experience, a local, reputable FBO that has a lot of Cessna experience was still deficient in understanding Rotax, in understanding composite, in being knowledgeable about Dynon, and in knowing how to research FD and Rotax maintenance docs. They are not bad people - I've trusted them with other airplanes - they just don't have the level of expertise you would prefer in your airplane, and it is not in their interest to acknowledge their ignorance.

Your desire to take the plane to CT for the prebuy sounds good to me. How you work out the details I'm not an expert at. If I were in your shoes and were willing to buy the airplane at a good price if it is as advertised, I'd try to get the dealer to fly it to CT for the inspection. Subject to a good inspection, you'd pay the dealer and get it home from there.

One of the questions that comes up is how to resolve little issues. Keep in mind, the Cessna dealer won't know about many of the FD and Rotax gremlins and could be legitimately surprised at something that is important to you but to the dealer is negligible. Here are some examples - how about if you find questionable sensors? What if the fuel pump is a little iffy or subject to an SB but is still working?

My paranoid sense is we have a Cessna dealer with an airplane they don't know much about hoping to sell it to someone who doesn't know much about it, either, and who would not think it wise to get an expert involved because then the dealer may end up having to learn about and figure out what to do about problems they didn't know existed. It's not like a Lycoming failed a compression test, which they have had lots of experience with.

OK, I've rambled on. Good luck with your purchase.

[Guest East coast Jim]

Friends:

 

Thanks for your advice. I am going to fly an LS this week (the version of the CT that I can easily access) and if all goes well, I think I will proceed with the purchase of the SW.

 

Thanks again!!

 

Jim

[WmInce]

Friends:

 

Thanks for your advice. I am going to fly an LS this week (the version of the CT that I can easily access) and if all goes well, I think I will proceed with the purchase of the SW.

 

Thanks again!!

 

Jim

 

Good luck Jim and have fun!