Ed Cesnalis Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 I encounter a wing drop when landing with flaps from time to time. Wind shear is usually a component when this happens and often I still have 4' of altitude above the runway. When this occurs my passenger will generally look at me wide eyed and exclaim: 'that was really soft!' I have never before thought about the technique that I use instinctively instead I have experienced a process where I touch one wheel and then walk down the other ( not a crosswind slip technique at all ). Upon reflection as the wing drops I pressure opposite rudder sufficient to allow the sink to continue but at a controlled rate with a soft contact. Upon contact I release pressure and allow the other side to sink. It may involve a pivot on the first main to get strait again. Will you call me nuts or can you relate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralarcon Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 No I would not call you nuts, and if it works why not use it. Can't see any harm. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WmInce Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 I encounter a wing drop when landing with flaps from time to time. Wind shear is usually a component when this happens and often I still have 4' of altitude above the runway. When this occurs my passenger will generally look at me wide eyed and exclaim: 'that was really soft!' I have never before thought about the technique that I use instinctively instead I have experienced a process where I touch one wheel and then walk down the other ( not a crosswind slip technique at all ). Upon reflection as the wing drops I pressure opposite rudder sufficient to allow the sink to continue but at a controlled rate with a soft contact. Upon contact I release pressure and allow the other side to sink. It may involve a pivot on the first main to get strait again. Will you call me nuts or can you relate? From here . . . way too complicated. Just have fun and land it. . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Meade Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 Sounds OK to me. As the wing drops, the plane will have a tendency to turn into it, dropping it further. Applying opposite rudder will lift or at least slow the drop of the wing. When it touches and the other wing begins to settle, one would obviously take the compensating rudder out. Am I missing something? No need to get ailerons too involved in what is obviously rudder work. What kind of speed are we talking? Mid 40's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted February 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 I have done this at various speeds and flap settings. Common components would be shear, rotor, tail wind ... etc. A bit like a 'falling leaf landing' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbigs Posted February 3, 2015 Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 Side loading a single wheel at a time is probably not something to try for unless in a stiff xwind. What's wrong with just landing the plane, wings level, proper height, nose up? The FD lands best with at flaps 15, 62kts over the numbers...and in a xwind a little faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted February 3, 2015 Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 In my opinion the wing drop comes from aileron application while close to stall speed with 30 or 40 degrees of flaps. The fact that you can catch it with rudder is a good thing until one day when you don't catch it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Bozo Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 Another point of view... I have the tundra tires on my CT with the monster tires. They are very heavy tires and of course the CT has disc brakes that also have some drag on them. When landing by putting both wheels on the runway at the same time the energy that it takes to get those tires rolling makes it hard to keep the plane from pitching forward and allowing the nose wheel to hit as soon as the mains hit the runway. So for about a year or so now I have been forcing a one main wheel at a time to hit the runway on landing and that method makes for a very smooth landing without the pitch forward since only one main wheel has to get rolling at a time. The pitching forward is not an issue using that method and the landings are way better. I am only talking about a slight wing down at the flare out and not a very significant bank. Of course it is up to you to decide which side tp put down first depending on any slight cross wind but either way left or right works very good for me. Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WmInce Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 Another point of view... I have the tundra tires on my CT with the monster tires. They are very heavy tires and of course the CT has disc brakes that also have some drag on them. When landing by putting both wheels on the runway at the same time the energy that it takes to get those tires rolling makes it hard to keep the plane from pitching forward and allowing the nose wheel to hit as soon as the mains hit the runway. So for about a year or so now I have been forcing a one main wheel at a time to hit the runway on landing and that method makes for a very smooth landing without the pitch forward since only one main wheel has to get rolling at a time. The pitching forward is not an issue using that method and the landings are way better. I am only talking about a slight wing down at the flare out and not a very significant bank. Of course it is up to you to decide which side tp put down first depending on any slight cross wind but either way left or right works very good for me. Larry Larry, Point well taken. But on the other hand, all the weight of the airplane is then being exerted on the respective strut, instead of being evenly distributed between the two. Landings may well be smoother, but more stress is being delivered to a single side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Bozo Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 You said it, landings are smoother...thus not as much stress. works good for me. Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WmInce Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 . . . "landings are smoother...thus not as much stress." . . . But You said it, landings are smoother...thus not as much stress. works good for me. Larry Weight . . . on a single strut vs. weight on two struts, results in more aircraft weight (stress) on that single strut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 One thing to remember is the wings will still be carrying some weight. On a smooth landing the weight of one wheel on the ground with enough speed to hold the other wheel in the air will likely put less stress on the strut than taxiing slowly over rough ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WmInce Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 One thing to remember is the wings will still be carrying some weight. On a smooth landing the weight of one wheel on the ground with enough speed to hold the other wheel in the air will likely put less stress on the strut than taxiing slowly over rough ground. Concur Tom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 Larry, Point well taken. But on the other hand, all the weight of the airplane is then being exerted on the respective strut, instead of being evenly distributed between the two. Landings may well be smoother, but more stress is being delivered to a single side. Well, not necessarily. I found a trick to more successful wheel landings in my Citabrias: I found if I landed with both wheels simultaneously, that spring steel gear was just itching to bounce me back in the air. But if there was a crosswind, landing on one wheel first tended to keep me down. So much so, that I found that even with no crosswind, I would try to roll on one wheel first. In my case it was the right wheel, since I was in the habit of looking out to the right side anyway (from the back), and being right handed it felt most natural. I never found it stressed the gear in the least. It was never like ALL of the weight was on the one wheel - most was still supported by the wings, as Tom pointed out. Then I'd roll the other one on and finish the wheel landing, with only about a second between the two wheels. Again, stipulated it may have been a bad habit. But it worked for me, and I see where Larry is coming from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 So how do you put one wheel down first in the absence of a crosswind, without going at an angle to the runway? You'd have to put one wing down and use opposite rudder, but without a crosswind to compensate you are now traveling off the axis of the runway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 So how do you put one wheel down first in the absence of a crosswind, without going at an angle to the runway? Practice, practice, and more practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 Practice, practice, and more practice. Practice beats physics...yay!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 So how do you put one wheel down first in the absence of a crosswind, without going at an angle to the runway? You'd have to put one wing down and use opposite rudder, but without a crosswind to compensate you are now traveling off the axis of the runway... It's a very quick and subtle move - slipping ever so slightly but rolling the wheel on before drift starts. I think inertia is the physics at play. And, like Tom says, practice. I tried to video this once, but my GoPro tail mount was bouncing around too much. May try it again soon. Go to about 1:20 in this video for an idea, though mine are maybe a little more subtle! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 You can actually do it by making a slight turn instead of slipping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted February 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 So how do you put one wheel down first in the absence of a crosswind, without going at an angle to the runway? You'd have to put one wing down and use opposite rudder, but without a crosswind to compensate you are now traveling off the axis of the runway... You can travel down the runway, enough flaperon to keep up on the wheel in contact and enough rudder to fix, but the main gear on the ground will be skidding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishAl Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 This video shows a fellow doing it in a CTSW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 Great example. Sure doesn't look like: 1) There was much of a crosswind. 2) The tire was skidding*, or, 3) The single gear leg was being stressed to any great extent. Thanks for that. * I can see how wing-down control inputs will make the plane want to slip in that direction, so the tire is resisting that slip, maybe by "scrubbing" a little. I can see how one might call that a skid, but I don't think it fits the mental image most of us carry of a skidding tire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted February 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 Look at the 17 second mark and you can see the CT pointed at the camera yet it tracks down the runway. If the wheel isn't going where it is pointed it must be skidding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 I can see where once you have that technique down it could be something to make landings a little smoother. The perfection of the technique, however, seems like a real good way to go for RLOC. I think I'll keep landing straight with both wheels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 You can Google "Bob Hoover iced tea" or "Harold Johnson tri motor" for a couple fun to watch videos that include one wheel landings. I have used the alternating one wheel landings to demonstrate to students that they should be in control of the airplane instead of just reacting to what it is doing. I prefer to do it on grass with a tailwheel airplane. I have also used it as a method of determining which wheel is out of balance on a airplane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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