Common crosswind landing mistake

[coppercity]

Spent the weekend working with a student on crosswind landings and just wanted to share one of the common mistakes pilots make when performing crosswind landings.

 

New students tend to stop flying the plane once it's on the ground, this is a no no with crosswinds! It is very easy to lose directional control and end up off the runway letting those crosswind control inputs go just because the wheels are on the ground. Crosswind aileron correction should be gradually increased after touchdown until you end up at full deflection again just as when you taxi with crosswinds.

 

Couple other tips, use less flaps, increase approach speed up to 1/2 any gust factors. A couple knots extra is good for when the side slip is introduced. Let the nose down earlier after touchdown to get that steering anchor on the ground. Retract the flaps early to reduce the lift and help keep you on the ground.

 

Practice, practice, practice.

[Mike]

I never use more than 15 deg or no flaps in a strong X wind as the CT has a tendency to drop a wing at the wrong moment getting the adrenalin pumping :>) , I have seen planes skimming along the runway on one main wheel and nose wheel thinking to myself push the bloody stick over :>) , its very easy to relax after landing especially for a student who then breath's a sigh of relief at being on the ground ...

 

Mike

[hhobbit]

@Mike:

I have that T-shirt! Exactly as you described happened to me in Perranporth last year. Came within a foot of a wing tip scrape, wife helped to stabilise a/c by jumping into my lap:)

 

I never use more than 15 deg or no flaps in a strong X wind as the CT has a tendency to drop a wing at the wrong moment getting the adrenalin pumping :>) , I have seen planes skimming along the runway on one main wheel and nose wheel thinking to myself push the bloody stick over :>) , its very easy to relax after landing especially for a student who then breath's a sigh of relief at being on the ground ...

 

Mike

[Roger Lee]

Here is a good training question.

 

If the wind gets under the left wing and you start to tip and the right wing is, let's say, 3' off the ground what do you do and what is a quick and effective way to get the plane back on both wheels? If the left wing is low which way do you turn the plane?

[Runtoeat]

Here is a good training question.

 

If the wind gets under the left wing and you start to tip and the right wing is, let's say, 3' off the ground what do you do and what is a quick and effective way to get the plane back on both wheels? If the left wing is low which way do you turn the plane?

 

OK Roger, I'll bite. How about kicking in some right rudder to lift the low left wing? In actuality, I'd probable want to push the stick to the right but this is a classic mistake to use the ailerons to correct a dropped wing during stalls so I'll assume that this is like an uneven wing stall condition.

[Ed Cesnalis]

Here is a good training question.

 

If the wind gets under the left wing and you start to tip and the right wing is, let's say, 3' off the ground what do you do and what is a quick and effective way to get the plane back on both wheels? If the left wing is low which way do you turn the plane?

 

from the above i'll assume i am landing with a left crosswind and that i already blew it.

 

wind under left wing and starting to tip; right wing 3' off the ground; if left wing is low which way do you turn the plane?

 

if my right wing is 3' off the gound and i'm, starting to tip and i want to get both wheels in contact then the correction is full left stick, keeping this correction in as needed until i turn off the runway. which way do i turn the plane? i don't unless i'm not aligned and holding the centerline, rudder as needed to maintain alignment.

 

the unanswered question is why am i on my right wheel when i should be on my left? i should have had the left stick in sooner and kept enough deflection to keep my upwind wheel in contact and my upwind wing down.

 

excuses for getting in this condition would be variable gusty winds made me unable to anticipate, a gulfstream just advanced his throttles and blasted me or wake turbulence.

[Roger Lee]

Here is the answer I was looking for.

 

If you have gotten into a pickle and the left wing is up in the air with the right wing is really low. (wind blowing from the left) Of course killing the lift on the left wing is great with left stick, depending on the strength of the wind it may come down quick or it may not come down at all if the wind is strong. The fastest way to get it down under a strong wind is to turn (right peddle) into your low wing. Even in a strong wind if you turn into the low wing the plane will quickly come back to a level position. Once down you can resume a straighter course. Many people when being blown over want to turn toward the high wing because they feel like the plane is being blown off the runway to the low wing side. If in this scenario you did turn towards the left high wing it would cause the right wing to drop even more and make things worse.

 

 

 

I'm not putting anything else into this problem, plenty of runway and wide enough so don't read anything else into the scenario.

[Ed Cesnalis]

roger,

 

i can agree to this extent. if the wind under my left wing has impacted my vertical stab and is weather vaning me nose left then my correction is right pedal.

 

i'm only looking to turn right if i've not kept myself aligned and tracking strait. turning downwind when your already f***ed up? i'm not convinced.

[Roger Lee]

The right peddle here is a quick, fast and easy way to bring the left wing down. It works really well when killing the lift on the left wing doesn't work well because of the wind strength. Always turn towards the low wing. It will bring the low wing up immediately. I know this seems backward, but is absolutely the right thing to do when you can't get the high wing back down or you need the low wing back up immediately. You could have so much wind under that left wing that stick correction alone won't bring it back down.

 

I have been there and done this several times. Thankfully not in my CT.

 

This is like a car in a skid. Turn the wheels in the direction of the skid to get control first, then make any further direction changes.

Here's another example of the forces at work. If you put a car up on two wheels, let's say left wheels in the air, right wheels on the ground, which way would you turn the wheels bring the car back down?

To the right, turning the wheels to the right will snap the cars left air born wheels back to the ground.

 

Same for the plane.

[Ed Cesnalis]

roger, its been a while since you and i have had a "discussion"

 

the car analogy doesn't work well, it has 2 cases

1. you are balanced on 2 wheels and to get back on 4 you would turn to the high side
2. you are in the process of rolling over due to turning too sharply, in this case you would turn to the low side.

personally if i am still rolling over even with full aileron deflection i will choose to go around as opposed to turning downwind and away from the runway heading.

 

your physics are correct but i can't buy the idea of turning, my objective is to control alignment and drift.

 

in most cases drift control (low wing on upwind side) will set you up to avoid this problem, prevention is the best cure here.

 

how many of us can land on one wheel without a crosswind? drift control and "balancing on one wheel" are skills that come into play here.

 

another skill is flying without airspeed, like when you meet a dust devil on the ground when hooked into your hang glider, or when that gulfstream blast or wind gust gets your ct flying from a stand still.

[Roger Lee]

Hi Ed,

 

On the car problem which is just like the plane. You turn to the low side to bring the high side down. If you turn to the high side you will go over. I was a driving instructor for Fire & Police driving and trained at General Motors Proving Grounds.

When trying to get a high wing down if the stick works fine, but if it doesn't, the wind is too strong or you need it fixed this instant then turning to the low wing will do this right now. If I'm going to tag my low wing then at that point I may not care about keeping straight.

I agree that prevention is the best policy, but things do happen.

 

When turning to the low wing you don't turn that far. You will still stay on the runway and going in the general direction, but at an angle. Once the wing is down then straighten it back down the runway.

[Runtoeat]

Roger, I'd be willing to take a ride with you and have you demonstrate this technique f the opportunity ever presents itself. I'm trying visualize this scenario and will take your word for it when it comes to putting in a quick temporary kick of the rudder to the low wing but don't think I'll try this in my next Xwind landing to see if your technique works. If I'm bent out of shape I'm hitting the "go" button (my throttle) and doing a go 'round to try to get it right the next time around. And, getting it right during bad Xwind days to me means to get the upwind wing low - maybe even to over do the wing low during the final phase - and keeping the nose straight to the runway.

[N78BZ]

Now, THIS is a crosswind landing!

 

Great video of a Boeing 787 Dreamliner testing crosswind takeoffs and landings in Keflavik, Iceland in September.

[207WF]

Assuming that bad crosswind technique and a crosswind from the left got you into this situation, I am with Ed. Full left aileron will help and is the most natural reaction. But Roger may be right, too: If I have a wide enough runway to change my direction to the right with right rudder, two things would happen. First, the transient rolling moment would push the left wing down and, second, the new direction would be one at which the crosswind component would be smaller. WF

[Ed Cesnalis]

Assuming that bad crosswind technique and a crosswind from the left got you into this situation, I am with Ed. Full left aileron will help and is the most natural reaction. But Roger may be right, too: If I have a wide enough runway to change my direction to the right with right rudder, two things would happen. First, the transient rolling moment would push the left wing down and, second, the new direction would be one at which the crosswind component would be smaller. WF

 

the crosswind component may or may not decrease but it would change from a crosswind with a headwind component to a crosswind with a tailwind component.

 

once that already troublesome wind gets behind you things are far more volatile, more ground speed, stall at a higher ground speed, etc.

 

i'm about keeping it pointed down the runway, holding the center-line and keeping the wind on my nose.