"New Airworthiness Certification of Aircraft and Related Products handbook"

[Patrnflyr]

Ok, on page 11 of this month's EAA mag, there was a mention of FAA Order 8130.2G which said there have been changes to the certification and operating limitations of S-LSA aircraft next April. It will change other types of aircraft also. Well, what do we expect the changes to be? Anybody have any ideas? Do we need to worry about this? John

[CT4ME]

I downloaded the document... which takes affect April 16, 2011. 318 pages of typical FAA-speak... too complex to digest in a short scan. I Googled the order number and haven't seen anything on the web that indicates there are any major changes. Rather than reading it... I'll wait for a redux from someone like Dan Johnson.

Here's a link to the document, in case someone would like a headache...

FAA order 8130.2G

Tim

[Roger Lee]

Hi John,

 

If you are referring to the changes that went into effect this last April 16, 2010 for SLSA here they are. This is an easy to read EAA summary.

 

 

Here is another link to read the same thing on the new rules. Read the bottom first.

 

http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/2010/2010-2056.htm

SportPilotRuleRevision_Summary.pdf

[Patrnflyr]

No Roger, this is another set of rules to come out in April 2011, 2010. The short paragraph said that the EAA was investigating what changes are proposed and will report when they can figure out what the 300+ pages say... I went and glanced at that document and it looks mostly like it's tightening up the certification process of various types aircraft,including the LSA's.

 

John

[airhound]

:blink: Does the recent interpretation of whatever the FAA supports regarding anybody with an A&P can be trained by another experienced A&P to annual a ROTAX legally mean: owner/operators don't have to worry about AW Certification issues if a non-ROTAX-certified, but trained mechanic performs the annual?

[Roger Lee]

That's exactly what it means. Just because they say you don't need Rotax training legally doesn't make it a smart move. EAA, AOPA and Rotax are going after FAA on this. Rotax will not warranty any thing a non certified person works on. They will not pay the cost of any recall or fix after the engine is out of warranty if a non certified person works on it. You will be completely on your own as an owner if you allow a non certified person work on your engine. It was FAA that originally wanted Rotax to tighten their certification because it was too loose to start with. It does mean that a non trained person can cost you thousands of dollars because he didn't know what he was doing. I can't begin to count the number of things I have had to fix because of an untrained mechanic worked on a Rotax. Most LSRM-A's have Rotax training where as many A&P's don't.

The SLSA Mfg. can still require a certified Rotax mechanic to do the work because in the LSA world the MFG. is God and can make the requirements for their plane as they see fit. The plane needs to meet the ASTM standards, but nothing stops any LSA MFG to have higher standards. If the insurance group gets a hold of this in about a year rates may be affected. This FAA ruling will have some long and maybe some unforseen consequences.

 

This is one of those pay now or pay later. I never did like the later amount.

[airhound]

Roger, Roger

 

So, our best interpolation is: If a non-ROTAX-certified mechanic signs off a CT Engine Logbook, then Air Worthiness Certification is forefitted? Is this about how we all should see it?? :blink: :huh: :unsure:

[Roger Lee]

As of this second yes. You still need a Rotax certified mechanic to work on your engine, as of today.

 

As soon as the new FAA ruling comes out any one can work on a Rotax and they can get training from anyone. I could train any mechanic or owner and you would be qualified to do Rotax work. This leaves a tremendous liability issue on A&P's. If they do any Rotax work and it's wrong or causes an issue then the owner can just slam the hec out of them in court. You better have all the Rotax books, SB's and related paperwork and you better know it because ignorance is not bliss here. I don't know of any A&P's that are like that, I know there are some, but not a lot. You better be able to back up any training you have had on Rotax. FAA says if you screw something up then you just didn't follow the instructions in the book. More or less end of story from FAA. You should have read the instructions before any work.

 

As an owner you will still need a mechanic to do your work except for the preventive maint. like it is listed now. The difference will be any mechanic can do the work whether he knows what he is doing or not. The legal interpretation from the FAA on what Rotax can demand is one thing, but it is a terrible idea in real everyday life.

This all came about from owners and A&P's complaining that they could not do the work. All Rotax wanted was for people to know that these engines are not the same as a wet sump Continental or Lycoming. They are different and Rotax was trying to control the education and training aspect.

 

There are people fighting this so it could change some and it is a wait and see item to where all the chips will fall.

 

FAA basically said Rotax couldn't dictate who did maint., or that you had to take a class or an update class.

Rotax will deny any warranty work done by any one that has not been to Rotax school and will not reimburse anyone if work is done later on a recall. This puts people in a bad spot for at least the first 18 months of a new engine.

 

From all the things I have had to fix because of an untrained A&P I personally would let any one that has not been trained by Rotax to do my work. You pay $20K for an engine and a little screw up could cause an off field landing or trash an engine to a tune of $1k-$8K fix.

 

 

What you don't know can and does bite people in the butt.