Admin2 Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 I agree and I'm starting to get an itchy suspension trigger finger again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WmInce Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 I agree and I'm starting to get an itchy suspension trigger finger again. Stay calm and just ignore the guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 From now on, in my Sky Arrow: After engine start, turn the transponder on to ALT instead of SBY*.Move "Transponder...OFF" from After Landing Checklist to Shutdown Checklist.No more nor less work nor complication than before.As I said before, just as easy to comply with as not. So why not? *My Garmin automatically switched from SBY to ALT after takeoff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WmInce Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 . . . "attitude is one of the most important aspects of being a good and safe pilot. . . . Narcissism and flying don't mix." . . . You are absolutely correct. I have seen this before and the end results were disastrous. "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 To correct one thing that was posted, though apparently edited or deleted... It was stated my position on following the rules (and suggestions) was inconsistent, having been opposed to the 2020 ADSB mandate. Either I was confused with someone else, or that was just made up. I accept the mandate and will comply, if I'm still flying and have a plane five years hence. My position was and is simply that I think its a waste of time to worry about it now. Early 2019 I'll start to pay attention, late 2019 I'll be ready to commit to a course of action. The hardware landscape will be different enough then to make decisions now premature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WmInce Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 My position was and is simply that I think its a waste of time to worry about it now. Early 2019 I'll start to pay attention, late 2019 I'll be ready to commit to a course of action. The hardware landscape will be different enough then to make decisions now premature. Concur with that totally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercity Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 If you start to taxi at Phoenix Sky Harbor with your transponder in standby, ground control kindly asks you to turn it on. Much easier to just leave it on all the time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Top Cat Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 In the Dynon Skview that I have (with the SV-261-TXP) you can select either ALT or GND as one of several Mode-S transponder mode options. In this regard it would seem to me that switching to GND when ON the ground would be better than ALT. As you can see from below, the GND position is there in order to respond to ground surveillance radar, which is the intent of FAA's SAFO. However, the FAA say they want ALT, go figure. I guess they're looking for a 'one size fits all'. GND Press to set the transponder to ground mode. In ground mode, the transponder will respond to Mode S ground interrogations from surface movement radar. When active, the GND button will remain highlighted in this menu, and GND is annunciated in the transponder status area in the Top Bar. When the transponder is in ground mode, pressing GND again will turn ground mode off and put the transponder in standby mode. ALT Press to set the transponder to respond to all interrogations with altitude reporting. When active, the ALT button will remain highlighted in this menu, and ALT is annunciated in the transponder status area in the Top Bar. When the transponder is on in this mode, pressing ALT again will turn put the transponder in standby mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug G. Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 Ed, that looks like a good approach to me. In the mean time, if an attractive ADS-B solution comes along sooner, you could jump on it.If there were an upgrade solution approved by FD that meet the 2020 mandate in and out I may jump, but they have nothing yet. Dynon has a solution but it takes an external magnetometer, a WAAS source, and the unapproved 12.2 software. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbigs Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 If there were an upgrade solution approved by FD that meet the 2020 mandate in and out I may jump, but they have nothing yet. Dynon has a solution but it takes an external magnetometer, a WAAS source, and the unapproved 12.2 software. The Dynon ADS-B SV-XPNDR-261 solution coupled with the Garmin 796 for WAAS meets the 2020 mandate today...I have had this since the plane was built and delivered, it works perfectly. Setting the xpndr to AUTO gives GND on the ground, ALT in the air...Set it to AUTO over a year ago haven't reset it since. No one has asked me to set the xpndr to ALT on the ground at any B, C or D airfield yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Top Cat Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 It is NOT an FAA reg. And as someone who flys into Class B, C and D routinely I appreciate the AUTO setting on the xpndr. There is already plenty to deal with regarding departure clearances and ATC communication at these airports. And little is more critical on takeoff than having your squawk code set correctly, flying the route/altitude instructed and not worry that your ALT mode is on...especially if departure control is busy... And that's VFR, the instrument departure procedures are even more complex This so-called safety directive is largely nonsense except for the big Bravos, and even then, those guys are watching you like a hawk anyway, especially if you request progressive taxi help... If you think switching your transponder from one mode to another is added workload you misunderstand the discipline required for flying under IFR. Instrument Flight RULES. IFR is all about multi-tasking, thinking ahead, cross-checking, cross-checking again, managing the cockpit, thinking about the actual weather, icing, alternates, fuel state, what to do when the weather gets worse, reviewing the chart, reviewing the approach plate and then ATC calls and says:- N123AB I need to change your squawk for the next sector, squawk 1234 and ident standby for holding clearance. N123AB cleared to STROS hold as published maintain 7000 expect further clearance at 35 and did you copy the icing report from the previous airplane? I'm cleared direct STROS to hold as published expect further at 35. I'd like to request 5 mile legs and I did copy the icing report and I'm picking up trace rime requesting 5000. 123AB unable 5000 this time due traffic say intentions? 123AB still not picking up your transponder squawk ident. I'm not able to maintain 7000 due to ice I need to divert to KXXX. 123AB turn right heading 090 descend to 6000 expect 5000 proceed direct to HOWIE I'll switch your over to Dingdong Approach in just a minute they're currently using ILS 24 let me know when you have the ATIS I now have ATIS C and level 6000 requesting 4000 to get out of the weather, still picking up light rime. 123AB descend and maintain 3000 direct OM for ILS 24 contact Dingdong Approach 119.25 good day. Dingdong Approach 123AB with you descending to 3000 direct OM with information X-ray 123AB roger are you squawking 1234? Affirmative. Roger radarcontact reduce speed to 150 are you still in icing? Aaah…negative I'm between a layer and in light rain. Roger maintain 3000 intercept localizer on present heading clear for the ILS 24 contact tower 123.45 at marker keep your speed up as long as you can 3AB roger Tower 123AB ILS 24 marker inbound 150 kts 123AB number 2 to land behind regional jet reduce speed to 100kts wind 360 at 8 gusting to 15kts 123AB cleared to land where did you break out? 3AB broke out 250' cleared to land 3ab thanks turn right contact ground point 7 Ground 3AB clear 24 for Butler Roger 3AB not receiving your transponder 3AB I recycled it Okay receiving it now, follow the RJ then turn onto Charlie Butler is straight ahead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Top Cat Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 The Dynon ADS-B SV-XPNDR-261 solution coupled with the Garmin 796 for WAAS meets the 2020 mandate today...I have had this since the plane was built and delivered, it works perfectly. Setting the xpndr to AUTO gives GND on the ground, ALT in the air...Set it to AUTO over a year ago haven't reset it since. No one has asked me to set the xpndr to ALT on the ground at any B, C or D airfield yet. That's interesting. On another forum a while back you said there that your plane had the SV-262-XPNDR. As you know the 262 isn't as powerful as the 261 and the 261 is recommended by Dynon in trying to eventually meet the 2020 mandate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 Setting the xpndr to AUTO gives GND on the ground, ALT in the air...Set it to AUTO over a year ago haven't reset it since. No one has asked me to set the xpndr to ALT on the ground at any B, C or D airfield yet. Nobody except the FAA. But you are ignoring that request. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbigs Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 If you think switching your transponder from one mode to another is added workload you misunderstand the discipline required for flying under IFR. Instrument Flight RULES. IFR is all about multi-tasking, thinking ahead, cross-checking, cross-checking again, managing the cockpit, thinking about the actual weather, icing, alternates, fuel state, what to do when the weather gets worse, reviewing the chart, reviewing the approach plate and then ATC calls and says:- N123AB I need to change your squawk for the next sector, squawk 1234 and ident standby for holding clearance. N123AB cleared to STROS hold as published maintain 7000 expect further clearance at 35 and did you copy the icing report from the previous airplane? I'm cleared direct STROS to hold as published expect further at 35. I'd like to request 5 mile legs and I did copy the icing report and I'm picking up trace rime requesting 5000. 123AB unable 5000 this time due traffic say intentions? 123AB still not picking up your transponder squawk ident. I'm not able to maintain 7000 due to ice I need to divert to KXXX. 123AB turn right heading 090 descend to 6000 expect 5000 proceed direct to HOWIE I'll switch your over to Dingdong Approach in just a minute they're currently using ILS 24 let me know when you have the ATIS I now have ATIS C and level 6000 requesting 4000 to get out of the weather, still picking up light rime. 123AB descend and maintain 3000 direct OM for ILS 24 contact Dingdong Approach 119.25 good day. Dingdong Approach 123AB with you descending to 3000 direct OM with information X-ray 123AB roger are you squawking 1234? Affirmative. Roger radarcontact reduce speed to 150 are you still in icing? Aaah…negative I'm between a layer and in light rain. Roger maintain 3000 intercept localizer on present heading clear for the ILS 24 contact tower 123.45 at marker keep your speed up as long as you can 3AB roger Tower 123AB ILS 24 marker inbound 150 kts 123AB number 2 to land behind regional jet reduce speed to 100kts wind 360 at 8 gusting to 15kts 123AB cleared to land where did you break out? 3AB broke out 250' cleared to land 3ab thanks turn right contact ground point 7 Ground 3AB clear 24 for Butler Roger 3AB not receiving your transponder 3AB I recycled it Okay receiving it now, follow the RJ then turn onto Charlie Butler is straight ahead. Cockpit management is an issue for all of us, VFR or IFR. Especially in controlled airspace. Having a kneeboard and copying down instructions and using checklists are basics. When the load can be reduced, it should be... For example, I also have no interest in manually controlling the constant speed prop, nor in working the wastegate by hand on the twin turbo. Flying IFR is safer ironically because ATC is automatically looking out for you...but it does require constant and complex radio work and scanning of the panel. Those rarely flying into controlled airspace will not be current nor comfortable talking to ATC...those of us who do it regularly already know what to expect and are able to do things more automatically. Its a big sky... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbigs Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 That's interesting. On another forum a while back you said there that your plane had the SV-262-XPNDR. As you know the 262 isn't as powerful as the 261 and the 261 is recommended by Dynon in trying to eventually meet the 2020 mandate. I rechecked my invoice and see that i have the 261... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbigs Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 Nobody except the FAA. But you are ignoring that request. You got ADS-B yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 You got ADS-B yet? Nope. Is that relevant to transponder ops? Didn't think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbigs Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 Nope. Is that relevant to transponder ops? Didn't think so. It's relevant to your contention that choosing not to follow a 'suggestion' by the FAA is somehow more egregious than not equipping for an actual mandate, like the one for ADS-B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug G. Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 The Dynon ADS-B SV-XPNDR-261 solution coupled with the Garmin 796 for WAAS meets the 2020 mandate today...I have had this since the plane was built and delivered, it works perfect.Dynon doesn't seem to think it meets the mandate per their recent news release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 It's relevant to your contention that choosing not to follow a 'suggestion' by the FAA is somehow more egregious than not equipping for an actual mandate, like the one for ADS-B. Year mandate goes into effect? 2020. Current year: 2015. It's only even a "mandate" if I choose to go into certain airspace post-2020. The transponder rule applies to ALL aircraft equipped with a mode-C transponder, at all airports, right now. If the penalty for disobeying both the transponder and ADS-B documents was beheading, We'd get to play polo with your melon for four years before I'd even have to start getting concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Top Cat Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 Cockpit management is an issue for all of us, VFR or IFR. Especially in controlled airspace. Having a kneeboard and copying down instructions and using checklists are basics. When the load can be reduced, it should be... For example, I also have no interest in manually controlling the constant speed prop, nor in working the wastegate by hand on the twin turbo. Flying IFR is safer ironically because ATC is automatically looking out for you...but it does require constant and complex radio work and scanning of the panel. Those rarely flying into controlled airspace will not be current nor comfortable talking to ATC...those of us who do it regularly already know what to expect and are able to do things more automatically. Its a big sky... Cockpit management is only an 'issue' for those who aren't trained or who are behind the airplane and the ATC system, regardless of the airspace you're in. Your comment about needing to have "a kneeboard and copying down instructions" indicates lacking a grasp of the IFR system. Thinking that 'ATC is automatically looking out for you' is folly. ATC is looking out for ATC and separating traffic. They don't want you to have problems because then it's their problem. What would you do in the example I posted earlier if you lost communication with ATC? In that example there are several instances of problems with the transponder. Fairly typical, change of code, ident, lost signal due to…terrain, location possibly even the icing included in the example. Yes, extra 'load' but typical of IFR. It's not about occasionally flying into the 'big boy airports' but being able to fly the plane, comply with the clearance read complex charts, make decisions about fuel, weather, all whilst speeding up, slowing down, or entering a hold. Not forgetting a lot more precision than is required of a light sport pilot. I find it curious that you will talk in detail about equipment, avionics and any number of brochure items but never talk about training for IFR, high-altitude training, weather training, reading charts, ATC procedures etc. Usually you seem to brush it off and say…it's in auto so I can forget it…I've got my kneepad I'm set. You've spoken at length about your transponder and how your airplane is fully compliant with 2020 (it isn't) and how once switched on you can basically ignore it…yet you had to go to your sales invoice and see which one you had? Again….interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Top Cat Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 The Dynon ADS-B SV-XPNDR-261 solution coupled with the Garmin 796 for WAAS meets the 2020 mandate today...I have had this since the plane was built and delivered, it works perfectly. Setting the xpndr to AUTO gives GND on the ground, ALT in the air...Set it to AUTO over a year ago haven't reset it since. No one has asked me to set the xpndr to ALT on the ground at any B, C or D airfield yet. SkyView SV-XPNDR-261 and SV-XPNDR-262 Mode-S Transponders: Integrated: Made for the SkyView System with control and annunciation appearing on the SkyView Display. The transponder module can be mounted anywhere in the airplane that is convenient. Traffic: Features TIS Traffic (USA). ADS-B Out via 1090 ES: Meets USA and Europe ADS-B Out Mandates. Note, full FAA "2020 mandate" ADS-B Out compliance requires a TSO'd WAAS be connected. Additional U.S. ADS-B OUT Compliance Information: The FAA ADS-B "final rule" only allows the higher power Class 1 transponder to be used as an ADS-B Out transmit device for ADS-B Out mandate compliance on or after 2020. Therefore, for U.S. customers, we recommend only the Class 1 SV-XPNDR-261. Dynon Warranty, Support, and Service: These transponders come with a 3-year Dynon Warranty. Dynon haven't currently said what they will do as far as a TSO'd WAAS which would have to be installed in the airplane. It may be adopting a new transponder that can replace the existing transponder module and has it's own WAAS GPS source. As others have said, there are still several years to go yet….an age in the avionics world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbigs Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 SkyView SV-XPNDR-261 and SV-XPNDR-262 Mode-S Transponders: Integrated: Made for the SkyView System with control and annunciation appearing on the SkyView Display. The transponder module can be mounted anywhere in the airplane that is convenient. Traffic: Features TIS Traffic (USA). ADS-B Out via 1090 ES: Meets USA and Europe ADS-B Out Mandates. Note, full FAA "2020 mandate" ADS-B Out compliance requires a TSO'd WAAS be connected. Additional U.S. ADS-B OUT Compliance Information: The FAA ADS-B "final rule" only allows the higher power Class 1 transponder to be used as an ADS-B Out transmit device for ADS-B Out mandate compliance on or after 2020. Therefore, for U.S. customers, we recommend only the Class 1 SV-XPNDR-261. Dynon Warranty, Support, and Service: These transponders come with a 3-year Dynon Warranty. Dynon haven't currently said what they will do as far as a TSO'd WAAS which would have to be installed in the airplane. It may be adopting a new transponder that can replace the existing transponder module and has it's own WAAS GPS source. As others have said, there are still several years to go yet….an age in the avionics world. The 'final rule' from the FAA is experimentals and LSA do not have to have certified or TSOd WAAS GPS...so the Garmin 796 meets the 2020 mandate as is... and the Dynon xpndr and other ADS-B equipment are also good to meet the 2020 mandate without certification in an LSA also.... If you are flying a certified aircraft like a Cirrus or a Cessna you still need all certified ADS-B gear... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Top Cat Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 The 'final rule' from the FAA is experimentals and LSA do not have to have certified or TSOd WAAS GPS...so the Garmin 796 meets the 2020 mandate as is... and the Dynon xpndr and other ADS-B equipment are also good to meet the 2020 mandate without certification in an LSA also.... If you are flying a certified aircraft like a Cirrus or a Cessna you still need all certified ADS-B gear... I'm confused….you wrote this last year on another forum:- "The 2020 mandate will require the portable Garmin 796 be replaced with a TSO'd GPS/WAAS five years from now... But the Mode-S transponder already meets the 2020 mandate and can be retained, along with the Dynon SV-ADSB-470 Module." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbigs Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 I'm confused….you wrote this last year on another forum:- "The 2020 mandate will require the portable Garmin 796 be replaced with a TSO'd GPS/WAAS five years from now... But the Mode-S transponder already meets the 2020 mandate and can be retained, along with the Dynon SV-ADSB-470 Module." The FAA has changed it's ruling allowing LSA and Experimentals which already enjoy using non certified equipment to also be able to meet the 2020 mandate with non certified equipment....why do you keep my old posts from other forums? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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