TruTrak vs. Dynon Autopilot

[andyb]

As I continue my search for a CTLSi, I see planes with the Dynon and TruTrak autopilots.  One plane I'm looking at closely has the TruTrak.

 

Any input on the merits of one versus the other, and is the TruTrak considered to function well in the CTLSi?

 

Thanks much!

 

Andy

[andyb]

I am looking at a 2013 CTLSi, and it does have the Tru Trak IIVS.  Not sure why it has that one.

 

When you say that the SkyView is an integrated system, what capabilities does it have versus the Tru Trak?

 

Thanks,

Andy

[Tom Baker]

I am looking at a 2013 CTLSi, and it does have the Tru Trak IIVS.  Not sure why it has that one.

 

When you say that the SkyView is an integrated system, what capabilities does it have versus the Tru Trak?

 

Thanks,

Andy

 

Andy, likely the CTLSi with the TruTrak was ordered that way, because the distributor likes it better than the Dynon. I'm not 100% sure, but I think the TT will do everything the Dynon will do. The only thing is it needs a different GPS source like the Garmin 796.

[FlyingMonkey]

I am the guy who bought Bill's TruTrak Digiflight IIVS when he upgraded to the Skyview setup.  I think it's a GREAT unit.  Mine holds heading and altitude like a rock...even in bumpy air it will hold altitude within ten feet.  The vertical speed select is a little less accurate; if I say climb at 500fpm, the actual rate might vary between 400fpm and 600fpm.  It's probably averaging ~500fpm, but it's not there all time.  Certainly close enough for my purposes.

 

One thing I like about the IIVS is that for $1200 you can send the head unit to TruTrak and they will upgrade it to the Vizion model that has a better display, altitude select and pre-select, a one button emergency AP level feature, and some other goodies.  It's nice to have an upgrade path.

 

Honestly, even the IIVS is a bit of overkill for an LSA.  I rarely use mine, it's more fun to hand fly.  But for a really long trip, or if you need a minute to fish a sandwich out of your backpack, it's a very nice capability to have.

[TrutrakTech]

The Vizion autopilot will now interface to the Dynon Skyview so you get some integrated controls, yet retain some redundancy that you don't get with a Skyview autopilot.  The newest version of the Vizion software will allow the autopilot to follow the heading bug, flight plan CDI, altitude bug, and vertical speed bug from the Skyview.  All with only one button press on the autopilot itself.  

 

Andy, if you're interested in the Vizion, the upgrade is now less expensive at $900 for the controller upgrade if it's a round one and $1000 if it's a flat one.  

 

EDIT:  I realized I made a HUGE but small typo by putting it will NOT interface to the Skyview.  The Vizion DOES interface to the Skyview.  I've fixed the typo.  

[gbigs]

The Dynon autopilot and servos are fully integrated into the Skyview system so there is no need for an external and separate panel.  All autopilot functions are accessible from the PFD. 

 

And on long trips the autopilot is indispensable.  It not only alleviates pilot load, ensures the ball stays centered, the altitude is held, and the heading/course are tracked precisely.  This helps with fuel as most know when hand flying the very light CT tends to slip slightly and requires a lot of pedal and stick work to keep the plane flying level and straight.

 

There is a thread on this forum that discusses TruTrak on a CT, you may find it useful...    http://ctflier.com/index.php?/topic/84-trutrak-digiflight-iivs-problems/

[FlyingMonkey]

The Vizion autopilot will not interface to the Dynon Skyview so you get some integrated controls, yet retain some redundancy that you don't get with a Skyview autopilot.  The newest version of the Vizion software will allow the autopilot to follow the heading bug, flight plan CDI, altitude bug, and vertical speed bug from the Skyview.  All with only one button press on the autopilot itself.  

 

Andy, if you're interested in the Vizion, the upgrade is now less expensive at $900 for the controller upgrade if it's a round one and $1000 if it's a flat one.  

 

Are you actually the Devil, with temptations like that?!?   

 

You have my attention.  Is the install just a simple swap of the head unit, and mounting the emergency level button somewhere?  I have the 2.25" round unit, BTW.

[Ed Cesnalis]

The Dynon autopilot and servos are fully integrated into the Skyview system so there is no need for an external and separate panel.  All autopilot functions are accessible from the PFD. 

 

And on long trips the autopilot is indispensable.  It not only alleviates pilot load, ensures the ball stays centered, the altitude is held, and the heading/course are tracked precisely.  This helps with fuel as most know when hand flying the very light CT tends to slip slightly and requires a lot of pedal and stick work to keep the plane flying level and straight.

 

There is a thread on this forum that discusses TruTrak on a CT, you may find it useful...    http://ctflier.com/index.php?/topic/84-trutrak-digiflight-iivs-problems/

 

 

Your 2 axis auto pilot is not capable of keeping the ball centered.  When you are using the AP and your feet are off the pedals and you see a centered ball it is the result of your rudder trim position.

 

If you need proof, apparantly you do because you have said this before, move your rudder trim till your ball is no longer centered while in cruise flight.  The AP will not / cannot center it.

[FlyingMonkey]

 

If you need proof, apparantly you do because you have said this before, move your rudder trim till your ball is no longer centered while in cruise flight.  The AP will not / cannot center it.

 

Or just push on a rudder pedal.  The AP will not do anything to resist the yaw.

[gbigs]

Your 2 axis auto pilot is not capable of keeping the ball centered.  When you are using the AP and your feet are off the pedals and you see a centered ball it is the result of your rudder trim position.

 

If you need proof, apparantly you do because you have said this before, move your rudder trim till your ball is no longer centered while in cruise flight.  The AP will not / cannot center it.

 

I have flown 200 hours on the auto pilot.  I have verified it ABSOLUTELY keeps the ball centered.  It does it in quartering, full, and xwinds.  My plane has Dynon Skyviews and the Dynon autopilot and Dynon servos.

[FastEddieB]

And on long trips the autopilot is indispensable.

No, it is not.

 

It...ensures the ball stays centered...

No, it still does not.

[Ed Cesnalis]

I have flown 200 hours on the auto pilot.  I have verified it ABSOLUTELY keeps the ball centered.  It does it in quartering, full, and side winds.  My plane has Dynon Skyviews and the Dynon autopilot and Dynon servos.

 

Now you have mixed a 2nd misconception.  Quartering, full and side winds do not effect your ball, they do not effect your coordination.  The plane flies in the relative wind only wind shear effects your ball and even wind shear will need a cross component to do that.

 

The rudder is the fixer for all phases of flight, it is how you center the ball and the AP has no rudder servo.

[FastEddieB]

Someday, someone may just have that "AHA!" moment, and everything will fall into place.

 

Or not. 

[Ian]

[Ed Cesnalis]

Auto pilots have settings, mine has 'gain' settings that tell the servo how aggressively to apply force.  A sensitive LSA needs far less force than a Cessna 206.  A plane with unbalanced controls might need less force for the stabilator than for the flaperons.

 

A CT has a lot of adverse yaw but you will see little or no adverse yaw in cruise flight with limited bank angles.  This is likely why it seems as though the AP keeps the ball centered.  The AP is prolly set to where there will be little adverse yaw especially at higher speeds.

[FlyingMonkey]

 

Though more appropriately:

 

[Doug G.]

When I want to balance my tanks flying with auto pilot I use rudder trim to put the ball 1/2 to a full width out, and it stays there.

"There are none so blind as those who will not see!"

[FredG]

My 2006 CTsw has a factory installed TruTrak Digiflight IIVS. I am very happy with the AP and have always had great support from the manufacturer (Lucas at TruTrak tech support).

[CT4ME]

Ditto that, I've had three TruTraks, including the one upgraded to Vizion.  They have all performed great and the support from TT is incredible.  While the integrated Dynon unit may be convenient, the TT units will serve you well.

 

On another note... that TT Gemini AP is something else!

[FlyingMonkey]

Ditto that, I've had three TruTraks, including the one upgraded to Vizion.  They have all performed great and the support from TT is incredible.  While the integrated Dynon unit may be convenient, the TT units will serve you well.

 

On another note... that TT Gemini AP is something else!

 

Did you find the Vizion upgrade worth it?  Was it just a head swap and finding a place for the emergency level button, or is there more to it?

[CT4ME]

Yes. Yes.  Install was easy.  In my case, it was well worth it, as my old unit had the "display problem", and would have cost half the price (or more) of the Vizion.  Plus, the Vizion had a full new warranty and the refurb'd old unit only had a short warranty.  If your unit is working well, the Vizion doesn't really add much, especially if you barely use your existing AP.  The upset button is nice, but... otherwise it's pretty much the same.

[FlyingMonkey]

Yes. Yes.  Install was easy.  In my case, it was well worth it, as my old unit had the "display problem", and would have cost half the price (or more) of the Vizion.  Plus, the Vizion had a full new warranty and the refurb'd old unit only had a short warranty.  If your unit is working well, the Vizion doesn't really add much, especially if you barely use your existing AP.  The upset button is nice, but... otherwise it's pretty much the same.

 

Cool, I guess I'll hold off until my unit has issues.  I have the old, dreaded "green screen" so it's only a matter of time.  

[gbigs]

AndyB,

 

When looking at this CTLSi the TruTrak autopilot is not the most imporant difference issue.  Here is a list of the min equipment you should expect to see on the plane regardless of year made and TT.

 

1. 912iS sport upgrade - this adds 20% increased fuel efficiency and climb and cruise due to increased torque....the newest CLTSi delivered since about the fall of last year should already have the upgrade.  Others shipped prior to that need the upgrade in the field.  It is a major engine change.  Cost about $1k to 2k dependent on where/who does it for you.

 

2. ADS-B.  Make sure the plane has the Garmin 796 and the Dynon ADS-B solution.  That will give you 2020 compliance.

 

3. Dual 10 inch Dynon Skyviews are the top of the food chain...no steam gauges.

 

4. If the plane has been burning 100LL make sure no oil change interval was longer than 25 hours.

 

5. If ADS-B is equipped Look under the plane and make sure there are no extraneous holes, and no cracks where the unit is attached under the seat.

 

6. When you turn on the Master avionics switch you should see the primary PFD come on immediately, if not then the plane needs wiring work.

 

7. Fire up the plane and wait for the second alternator to kick in (rev to 2500 rpm) and listen carefully for any radio hiss or squeal.  If present, then the plane has a factory wiring issue and needs to be repaired.

 

8. Ask the owner if the Rotax voltage regulator was replaced with the new unit Rotax specifies in their recent Service Instruction.  If not, that should be done immediately.

[Anticept]

You cannot use a portable unit like the 796 as a source for ADS-B out. The recent change in wording will allow the dynon transponder to be used as the transmitter though, as long as dynon stands behind it saying it meets the TSO specs.

 

On 100LL and oil changes: not a major deal if it's a low time engine. It becomes an issue with several hundred hours, but a switch to mogas and regular maintenance will often help to clean it up.

 

Rest is good.

[Jim]

AndyB,

 

When looking at this CTLSi the TruTrak autopilot is not the most imporant difference issue.  Here is a list of the min equipment you should expect to see on the plane regardless of year made and TT.

 

1. 912iS sport upgrade - this adds 20% increased fuel efficiency and climb and cruise due to increased torque....the newest CLTSi delivered since about the fall of last year should already have the upgrade.  Others shipped prior to that need the upgrade in the field.  It is a major engine change.  Cost about $1k to 2k dependent on where/who does it for you.

 

2. ADS-B.  Make sure the plane has the Garmin 796 and the Dynon ADS-B solution.  That will give you 2020 compliance.

 

3. Dual 10 inch Dynon Skyviews are the top of the food chain...no steam gauges.

 

4. If the plane has been burning 100LL make sure no oil change interval was longer than 25 hours.

 

5. If ADS-B is equipped Look under the plane and make sure there are no extraneous holes, and no cracks where the unit is attached under the seat.

 

6. When you turn on the Master avionics switch you should see the primary PFD come on immediately, if not then the plane needs wiring work.

 

7. Fire up the plane and wait for the second alternator to kick in (rev to 2500 rpm) and listen carefully for any radio hiss or squeal.  If present, then the plane has a factory wiring issue and needs to be repaired.

 

8. Ask the owner if the Rotax voltage regulator was replaced with the new unit Rotax specifies in their recent Service Instruction.  If not, that should be done immediately.