Runtoeat Posted December 3, 2015 Report Posted December 3, 2015 I found and watched the Imax feature movie "Red Flag" on YouTube today. This highlights the war game flying done at Nellis AFB. It was really good. This is 1080 wide screen and I watched on my TV using HDMI cable from my computer. It's 48 minutes long but it went fast! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJ4v6wqxWOo
Andy Posted December 3, 2015 Report Posted December 3, 2015 I watched about half of it. Good film and enjoyed what I saw, though the only Navy guys were from the Royal Navy for that go. We participated in one of those in March 1982 with six of our F-14A's (half the squadron) for 11 days. A great experience; we were on the "aggressor team"! Not only did we get to "fight" against lots of other units and aircraft, but my pilot and I wound up turning against a real MIG-23 courtesy of a then-secret program named "Constant Peg".
Runtoeat Posted December 3, 2015 Author Report Posted December 3, 2015 Hi Andy. First of all, thank you for your service to our country. I can't begin to imagine the skill and practice it takes to successfully perform in air to air combat with the speeds of our latest aircraft and the range and accuracy of the ordinance. This movie gives someone like myself a taste of what you have experienced. I was impressed with the computer simulation of the battlefield shown by the AWACS. Still don't know how the air boss keeps everyone separated!
ralarcon Posted December 3, 2015 Report Posted December 3, 2015 First, thank you both for the service to our country ! and "but my pilot and I wound up turning against a real MIG-23 courtesy of a then-secret program named "Constant Peg"." How did this turn out ? Cheers
FlyingMonkey Posted December 3, 2015 Report Posted December 3, 2015 "but my pilot and I wound up turning against a real MIG-23 courtesy of a then-secret program named "Constant Peg"." How did this turn out ? Cheers Pretty good I bet, the MiG-23 is kind of a pig in anything but a straight line.
Rich Posted December 4, 2015 Report Posted December 4, 2015 Hi Dick, Watched it last evening and really enjoyed it. Thanks!
Tony & Rose Posted December 4, 2015 Report Posted December 4, 2015 Yep, I got to fly 'aggressor' against you guys, as well as develop tactics out of Nellis. I spent my last years out of Cannon (New Mexico) chasing those and others all around that desert area. Lots of fun and some great flying...
Andy Posted December 4, 2015 Report Posted December 4, 2015 Cool, Tony. That was fun flying...with a deadly purpose. One of the pilots from my squadron, Stan O Connor, went on to fly with the Constant Peg guys. Yeah, Andy, you got it right; they knew that and their tactics were geared to it. If we could get them to turn with us or they chose to, we should be able to win the encounter. Dick, that movie was the first time I'd seen the AWACS presentation; kind of doubt that had that kind of 3d virtual capability back in the 80's when I was there, but they were still very good anyway.
Runtoeat Posted December 4, 2015 Author Report Posted December 4, 2015 Tony and Andy, I cannot understand how a pilot manages to keep a target or evade someone targeting them at the tremendous speeds. I see the guy in the movie twisting and turning to see other aircraft but can't believe this is effective. Does the relative speeds become slower when chasing/being chased? Then again, I imagine a lot of the "fighting" is done many miles apart with AWACS assisted radar?
Andy Posted December 5, 2015 Report Posted December 5, 2015 Dick, you actually mentioned the key element in that...i.e, the relative speed. Not uncommon on the run in to have 1000+ knots of closure (Each aircraft doing 500 knots..or more!) and you can get an idea of what it looks like at "the merge" (the point where the two aircraft converge but going in opposite directions) by watching the passes in (the movie) "Topgun". Once that happens, each fighter starts maneuvering for offensive position, meaning they are generally going to turn toward one another unless the intent is to "bug out" (run!). As soon as the turning starts, speed generally starts decreasing unless you've got an excellent thrust to weight and the gas to keep you in the fight. So, it is the relative speeds that then become important and tend to be a lot slower. At this point, the fight becomes mostly visual; losing sight of your adversaries is a sure way to lose. Learning how to keep sight becomes a mandatory skill; hence, the twisting and turning in the cockpit. (Might not be true for the F-35 guys since they have virtual systems in the aircraft that let them see through...and I assume...around..the aircraft, but how effective that approach is remains to be seen.) Since the Tomcat was a two-seat fighter, visual responsibilities were generally divided along the 3 and 9 o'clock line, with the RIO taking the aft and the Pilot taking the forward. The rules of engagement (ROE) drive whether you need a visual i.d. to shoot; and they're going to be a function of the tactical situation. Tomcats carried an optical tracking and i.d. system called TCS (Television Camera Set..later called TVSU) that let us get visual i.d.'s at significantly longer ranges than available to the naked eye, allowing us to take "head-on" shots even when the ROE required the i.d. Obviously, you'd like to get your kill at range and not get into a turning fight; but the nature of conflicts (which tend to be piecemeal rather than behind defined battle lines) or the presence of other friendlies in the battle area would often preclude that. The AWACS for the USAF and the E-2 for the Navy (or assistance from the carrier) were great helps and did have longer radar ranges than we did; but it's the ROE and your weapons envelope that determines whether you can shoot or not. (If I had a Phoenix on board, I could individually target something in excess of 100nm range, without or without their assistance; and the E-2 and F-14 could establish a data link hookup that enabled us to act as two supplemental sets of eyes, with us each getting the other's data.)
Runtoeat Posted December 5, 2015 Author Report Posted December 5, 2015 Andy, appreciate your comments. Super interesting to me. Having a Phoenix show up from 100nm away while cruising along in bright blue skies would definitely ruin one's day
Tony & Rose Posted December 5, 2015 Report Posted December 5, 2015 Yep, all relative!!! Andy, a fair chance we went head-2-head in '82. We flew out of R-4809 (Tonopah AB) during mission, but based out of Creech most of the year. (Attached to Nellis AFB) Great flying, since we were NOT flying ROE as stated. We were the 'bandits'. The BIG advantage we had was; they regenerated us if we got blasted, but you RTB'd...
Andy Posted December 5, 2015 Report Posted December 5, 2015 That's really cool, Tony! That would have been a great assignment to have; and thanks for the training!!
Runtoeat Posted December 5, 2015 Author Report Posted December 5, 2015 Any of this look familiar? F14 and F-16. Still don't know how you guys kept it all straight!? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSlnAhSxPWY
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