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coppercity

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Tom/Roger

 

Thank you for that bit of info. I guessed otherwise, as in, stopped prop = major, major drag factor. I've never flown in that configuration and didn't imagine the engine's hard-to-turn-by-hand/high compression would let it windmill. But I do understand better thanks to your experienced backed explanations. Again thanks! Doug in IL

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CT and Ed, I'm glad that you bring up the subject of pitch during landings. I've been curious how many CT pilots pull the power and use this method. My landing technique is to use pitch to maintain speed, providing that I've planned correctly and have some altitude to play with. If I haven't planned correctly with altitude, I use some power on short final but pull power during the round out. Observing the CFI's jockey the stick forward and back during the final stage to keep the plane flying until the moment of touchdown during those first landings I had in a CT was impressive and it gave me a "real time" lesson in how pitch controlled speed. Guess this technique stuck with me.

 

About 90 percent of the time I pull the throttle to idle abeam the numbers and don't touch it until I taxi. It's more fun to come in a little high on final and slip than to come in low and add power.

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  • 2 weeks later...

"Observing the CFI's jockey the stick forward and back during the final stage........."

 

What is this all about. Unless the winds and turbulence are a factor there should not be any jockeying of the stick. Am I missing something here?

 

john,

 

i agree, the exception being when you have pulled back to far and have no power to compensate.

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"Observing the CFI's jockey the stick forward and back during the final stage........."

 

What is this all about. Unless the winds and turbulence are a factor there should not be any jockeying of the stick. Am I missing something here?

 

John, I was referring to jockeying the stick during gusty and windy landing days. Even on non gusty days, it doesn't take much of a small change of wind to balloon our CT's, I will sometimes relax pressure on the stick and allow the plane to settle back down during the last stage of landing if a small gust ballons me up. In this case, I'm not "jockeying the stick" but also not saying the position of the stick is set in stone during landing. Then too, there is a possibility on those gusty days that the gust just goes away which requires a squirt of throttle on the last stage to arrest my sink. I always have my hand on the throttle and I'm prepared to use this.

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Dick, got it. It's a definition thing. I've always thought of "jockeying" as when the pilot is continually moving the stick and accomplishing nothing. For example, and I would frequently see this with those I was instructing, they are continually moving the stick fore and aft when landing. Over controlling is another way of saying this where they put in a correction then take it out when all that is really necessary is smooth, slight movement of the controls. They make a lot of work out of what ever they are trying to do. It's a bad habit, one they don't even know they are doing, and it can be hard to break.

 

On the other hand, it sounds like you are just flying the plane, doing what is necessary. Your point of keeping your hand on the throttle is a good one. That's exactly where your hand belongs during take off, landing and maneuvering flight.

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John, your point about over correcting is a good one and if I were closer to you, I would like to take a few hours of instruction. Because I'm new at this, I sometimes over correct during landings and need a good objective assessment in order to improve my technique. Based on your comments, I'll try to watch for this tendency.

 

 

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It is an unintuitive fact from fluid dynamics that a freewheeling prop (presume no shaft friction) has ~30% more drag than an equivalent solid disk of the same diameter. It varies a bit based on propeller efficiency at glide speed. A stopped prop's drag is about 4x to 8x less than a spinning one being just 2 or 3 deep-stalled little wings.

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I recall an article in Flying Mag. some years ago by Dick Collins I think. He was criticizing some old Bo pilot for making small yoke movements, back and forth, during the flare. Then, he figured out this was a way to stay more connected with the plane during the flare and changed his mind about it. WF

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I recall an article in Flying Mag. some years ago by Dick Collins I think. He was criticizing some old Bo pilot for making small yoke movements, back and forth, during the flare. Then, he figured out this was a way to stay more connected with the plane during the flare and changed his mind about it. WF

 

I think that it is normal to make adjustments during the final moments of landing and probably is more a question of the extent of adjustments made. I would agree with the "staying connected" idea. It has been observed that it takes about 300 hours for a person to get acquainted to a new plane. Personally, I make a heck of a lot less "adjustments" during landing now at about 300 hours in a CTSW than I did initially. I am learning how the CT will respond to a little gust and wait things out before moving the stick. On days with a light wind blowing up the runway, very little stick movement. On gusty days with changing X-wind, a LOT of adjustments.

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I recall an article in Flying Mag. some years ago by Dick Collins I think. He was criticizing some old Bo pilot for making small yoke movements, back and forth, during the flare. Then, he figured out this was a way to stay more connected with the plane during the flare and changed his mind about it. WF

 

 

i had a need to have my hand be very active when i first got my ct. i wasn't so much putting in adjustments as feeling. i got over it and began landing with a quiet hand.

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The bottom line is to be safe, do what works for you, and continually work to improve your skills. Skills can be improved and new lessons learned at all stages of a pilots career. When you reach the point where you think you know all there is to know, that's the time to hang it up.

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